Networkgame with real long time between turns

[mameluke]

Hi folks,

I have one suggestion.
I haven't found this topic in the search.
Also after a disscusion on IRC there was no real nice solution.

I think it would be nice to have a feature like this:

I think about something like the old chess-games by mail. I open the game, study it and make my moves. Then I end turn and leave the game.
My opponent, some time later (maybe I've informed him by mail) opens the game at any time later and makes his turn.

This feature is cool because:
* You can play the game in a different way. With very much time for strategy.
* You can easily spread a game (or multiple!) over weeks which is also different feeling.

On IRC I discussed a solution that works already:

End turn, save game, send savegame to opponent, he opens with opponent as lokal player, ends turn, mails back, and so on...

It works but:
* In my test both needed the same Playername?
* You can see where the player is so shadow is impossible.
* You can "manipulate" the opponent if he doesn't looks carefully.


I know that this IS work. And I don't think that, if this comes, it comes soon. But I'd like to hear your opinion

With some "tricks" it's already possible now


Technically this could be done with password-protected game and game stays on server when all players logged out. (I think, but I'm just a player)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That would be nice, to have support explicitly for a PBEM (Play by E-mail) Wesnoth, in the game. Like you mentioned, it would cut down on the vulnerability to cheating found in the other method already.

[irrevenant]

Probably the biggest problem is Save-Reload. Currently there's no way to stop one player from just trying his turn again and again until he's happy with it, then sending it on.

[Blueblaze]

That would be a very interesting game Irre, where every player makes perfect attacks lol

[The Doctor]

Probably the biggest problem is Save-Reload. Currently there's no way to stop one player from just trying his turn again and again until he's happy with it, then sending it on.

Well, I guess you'd just have to trust the other player, wouldn't you? And only play with someone whom you know fairly well and won't cheat.

[Dave]

I do think it would be nice for the server to support "persistent" games. That is, long-running games that would allow players to quit and join as they choose. A player could join the game, play their turn, then leave; the game would remain running with no players at all. The next player could log in, play their turn, and then log off, and so forth. If both players happened to be on at the same time, they could play a sequence of turns just as with a regular game.

This wouldn't be completely trivial to implement though, and the games would also be interrupted if the server went down.

David

[irrevenant]

This wouldn't be completely trivial to implement though, and the games would also be interrupted if the server went down.

Presumably this would use a mechanism similar to autosaves, only on the server?

As such, you presumably could actually restore games that were interrupted mid-play?

[anakayub]

And I'd also assume that you'd need new options; if not there's gonna be a lot of unfinished games on the server, e.g. when games are finished due to everyone leaving. This should be at the create game and when last person leaves the game unfinished. Sounds like a good idea but complicated for the dev's to implement. BTW I'm referring to Dave's idea.

[Blueblaze]

This wouldn't be completely trivial to implement though, and the games would also be interrupted if the server went down.

Presumably this would use a mechanism similar to autosaves, only on the server?

As such, you presumably could actually restore games that were interrupted mid-play?

You're asking too much of our poor free server to save -every- game forever (or til completion). Why not just let the players have autosave, and if it goes down, then you have to reload it back up. I think the best way would be if theses game don't even get listed on the gamelist, but rather there is an option at the top of the list that allows you to either continue or load a new (or old) game. When you continue, it asks you for the game name, and the game password, and if you get it right you'll be taken to the game. If you make a new game or load, then you select the scenario (or save file) then the server asks you to create a specific game name (or login) and password. Then it goes on as expected.

[irrevenant]

You're asking too much of our poor free server to save -every- game forever (or til completion).

I didn't necessarily say that you should save every game. You would allow the host to define a game as persistent, and persistent games would be saved every turn. The cache could be purged as you go - only the most recent game is needed for restore.

Making it available to everyone would be nice, but as you say, the server may not be up to it. OTOH, that's a storage issue rather than a bandwidth one, and that's often an easier problem to resolve.

The rest of the stuff you said sounds good.

[Blueblaze]

Ah, well if storage wouldn't be an issue then, that would work. We could just set it so that any game that hasn't been updated in the last week ,or 2 weeks, or month (depends on the traffic of course), then it will automatically get deleted.

Edit, of course you could apply the load game situation still, just incase your scenario got deleted off the server, or you wanted to finish up a game that you couldn't finish in real time via this system. I think it would see a lot of use there, to help finish up games where people may not be able to stay for the entire hour or so it takes.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Perhaps there's a way to shuffle a saved game around between the server and the players?

[mameluke]

Interesting for me is, that you don't talk about the idea itself, but about the technical solution.
I suggest, that you are fine with the idea then?

Summarized: I think the most simplest way to implement it would be:

* option to make game persistent (maybe with some disadvantage, so not everybody is choosing it?)
* password protection (I have in mind, that this is coming anyway?)
* server-persistent game (game is idling but living without players)
* auto-cleanup due to some rules

Further idea: When you login and just started your turn, you see again all the movments the opponents did.

Perhaps there's a way to shuffle a saved game around between the server and the players?

I think it would be to easy to cheat if you do it that way?

[Noyga]

* password protection (I have in mind, that this is coming anyway?)

That part is already implemented

[mameluke]

Noyga, under our name is written "Developer".
Do you think this idea should be taken to some other place?
I don't know how the evolution of ideas is.
Or if some moderator think "bad idea, I close it" please do so