Translatable hero names?

[Dacyn]

It is possible to translate hero names? Particularly those displayed under their pictures when they speak. Well, that was more or less a rethorical question, as I doubt the answer is yes.

But can one hope for translatable hero names in the future?

It would help to -- make hero names pronounceable, -- make hero names inflectable (in Czech, this is a big win), -- make hero names pronounced more like they are in English instead of how they are written (if you are American/English you may not understand -- just try to imagine a part of world thinks you write and pronounce things differently), -- change names to forms usual in given language (eg. Konrad -> Konrád in Czech).

Or is this idea flawed? Why?

We've already made some modifications anyway, but it looks strange when a unit is titled differently in dialogs than its displayed name is...

[Jetrel]

sounds like an idea worth coding for

[Sangel]

Err... why should names be translated in the first place? Just because different cultures use different versions of the same names doesn't mean that people go by different names in different cultures.

My name is James. In France, my name is still James, even when I'm speaking French. I don't see why it should be different for Konrad.

[Dacyn]

-- make hero names pronounced more like they are in English instead of how they are written

[Jetrel]

Different countries sometimes have radically different pronunciations of the same letters.

Our "o" might be their "a", for example. The idea is to make sure that people in x country don't end up pronouncing Konrad as "Choonret", or something. Konrad should remain Konrad regardless of how you spell it.

That is an opinion - I opt for maintaining phonetic integrity over spelling integrity.

[neil]

Different countries sometimes have radically different pronunciations of the same letters.

Our "o" might be their "a", for example. The idea is to make sure that people in x country don't end up pronouncing Konrad as "Choonret", or something. Konrad should remain Konrad regardless of how you spell it.

That is an opinion - I opt for maintaining phonetic integrity over spelling integrity.

Choonret-- ha ha.

I totally agree. Also, some letter combination are unpronounceable in other languages and that ruins the flow of reading things.

[Dave]

I believe we had this discussion a while ago, and translators advised the developers not to allow changing of character names.

David

[autolycus]

I don't think changing the names is good for a simple reason:

Here we are communicating all on the net, using typed Roman input. If I say 'Konrad should be doing this', everyone knows it is the entity defined by the combination of six Roman letters 'Konrad' regardless of pronunciation. But if you have local changes, then I'd have to say something like 'Sithrandel should be doing this (the entity you in the US would be calling Konrad, but here in Phoenetia, we spell it Sithrandel)'.

*griN*

[Jetrel]

I don't think changing the names is good for a simple reason:

Here we are communicating all on the net, using typed Roman input. If I say 'Konrad should be doing this', everyone knows it is the entity defined by the combination of six Roman letters 'Konrad' regardless of pronunciation. But if you have local changes, then I'd have to say something like 'Sithrandel should be doing this (the entity you in the US would be calling Konrad, but here in Phoenetia, we spell it Sithrandel)'.

*griN*

Despite the absurd example - as such a transmutation of a name would not be possible, yes, you have a very valid point. I agree with you, and now think - because of this - that names should not be translated.

It might not hurt to have a pronunciation hint somewhere in the game for those languages that would change it quite a bit, though.

[autolycus]

Sorry for the absurdity...

I can see Conrad being pronounced as a series of phonemes Tch-owe-ne-ret in some bizarre combination of languages though... the K is normally quite standard, and if we agree to use specific vowel values, then your phonetic desires will be met.

I mean, Romanian has a nice set of specific vowels. What bugs me at times is to see a name like Abraham, which in English has the same vowel pronounced 3 different ways! We could probably do without accent marks if we stuck to simple vowels and diphthongs - like classical Greek or something.

[Viliam]

I believe we had this discussion a while ago, and translators advised the developers not to allow changing of character names.

I (as a translator and amateur linguist) recommend to support name changes. The names should not be changed to something different, but sometimes the name in original form is simply not good.

Some languages use different alphabet - added accented letters, missing letters ('w', 'q',...). In English there is one sound written with two letters ('sh', as in "Asheviere"), in Slovak or Czech this sound is always written with one accented letter ('Å¡'). Then, there is a character in the 'Eastern Invasion' campaign, his name is 'Owcxcvx' or something like this, I cannot pronounce it and wouldn't like to try invent its declinations (how could you decline a word in Slovak language, if no rule fits the word?). Most of names are OK and therefore should not be changed, but some are obviously wrong if not accomodated to language's customs. The written form must be simplified, to preserve the sound.

And please note that there are no non-Latin translations of Wesnoth (Cyrilic, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, Hebrew...) yet. If there will be any, at least then the names will have to be changeable. So you cannot avoid this topic forever.

[Dacyn]

Then, there is a character in the 'Eastern Invasion' campaign, his name is 'Owcxcvx'
.

"Owaec"(o-wayk)

[yann]

It is possible to translate hero names? Particularly those displayed under their pictures when they speak. Well, that was more or less a rethorical question, as I doubt the answer is yes.

But can one hope for translatable hero names in the future?

It is something I've thought about already, and should be doable without more difficulty than when I adapted the old unit-type handling to make unit_type names translatable with gettext.

Basically we can do:
- add the possibility to have an id in unit declarations
- make the default id value be the unit name
- either turn all uses of names into uses of id (that's what I did with unit_type) and really use name when we need to display it (was simpler for unit_type, since there was already a language_name() method)
- or audit all uses of name and replace those by uses of id - or, more realistically, play, and replace where it breaks

[yeti]

I believe we had this discussion a while ago, and translators advised the developers not to allow changing of character names.

So names like `King Eldaric' or `Prince Haldric' are supposed to be kept intact even if the words `king' and `prince' do not make any sense in the target langugage? Silly, IMNSHO.

Please note we will do it anyway (where we can) as some names look very odd and unpronounceable for a Czech, but can be easily changed to something reasonable with phonetic transcription, thus more-or-less keeping the name, but writing it differently. So I'm just asking for the possibility to do it consistently.

[cyrus]

I am German, and to me King doesn't sound as goofy as native speekers might expect. To be honest Konrad sounds very goofy to me, since it is an outdated german name. It sounds like the name of a clown or something. I would love to have a different name in the german version, because it is not a neutral name to germans. Its Like calling him Mario. You would have an association which would disturb you. And it is the only real name in the whole game. Why?