save/load fight reload fight save fight reload etc..

[Mcswan]

Hi,

I've played too many turn based strategy games where the only stategy is saving before a battle and reloading it if you didn't like the outcome.

I'd like to see a "really hard" difficulty setting where you can only load a game 3 times in a scenario.

The hard levels are too hard not to do save reloading, I'd like the "kudos" of being able to beat an offically hard level without any possibilty or temptation of cheating.

[thespaceinvader]

Turn off the autosaves and don't save the game yourself. Easy enough.

[Mcswan]

I do that, but the hard levels are designed to be save loaded, and so are almost impossible to do without save cheating.

Your commander guy is always at home because it's it's too risky to send him out, Getting a level 2 unit is a major thing. The levels are timed so you only have a limited time to win ( ie you can't afford to take losses), Maybe experienced units/heroes should be allowed to be bought back, like in warcraft 3.

[ivanovic]

I do that, but the hard levels are designed to be save loaded, and so are almost impossible to do without save cheating.

You are wrong!

The really hard difficulty levels are meant for experienced players and do require quite some strategy to survive. The save function only exists to allow to stop playing in a long mission and resume later on. The main reason for the existence of autosaves is to give us something to use when problems occur. Nobody does force you to use them nor are the meant to be used "by design".

[zookeeper]

I do that, but the hard levels are designed to be save loaded, and so are almost impossible to do without save cheating.

Depends on the campaign. For instance it seems that Northern Rebirth is more or less agreed to be nearly impossible on the hardest difficulty, without saveloading. Maybe some other campaigns or scenarios as well. Campaigns like HttT, tSG and TRoW are certainly doable on hard without saveloading. Of course you often need to know what you're doing and have played the scenario before so you know from the start what strategy to pursue.

[bert1]

I do that, but the hard levels are designed to be save loaded, and so are almost impossible to do without save cheating.

Depends on the campaign. For instance it seems that Northern Rebirth is more or less agreed to be nearly impossible on the hardest difficulty, without saveloading. Maybe some other campaigns or scenarios as well. Campaigns like HttT, tSG and TRoW are certainly doable on hard without saveloading. Of course you often need to know what you're doing and have played the scenario before so you know from the start what strategy to pursue.

Having had several goes at Northern Rebirth I can say that even this, on impossible, might well actually be doable without any save-reloading (the first couple of scenarios at least). I'm not far off. I'd be interested to know if anyone manages it.

Maybe experienced units/heroes should be allowed to be bought back, like in warcraft 3.

Well, you can. That's the whole point! Use recall(alt-r) instead of recruit (ctrl-r). If you missed this, no wonder you're having trouble!

[zookeeper]

Maybe experienced units/heroes should be allowed to be bought back, like in warcraft 3.

Well, you can. That's the whole point! Use recall(alt-r) instead of recruit (ctrl-r). If you missed this, no wonder you're having trouble!

Duh. He meant resurrecting them, not recalling.

Or if he didn't, I'll triple my duh and direct it to him instead.

[Velensk]

Heh, what campains are designed to be save-loaded? Many of us have beaten most of the campains on hard without save-loading, if you can't do this yet then this may be the challange you are looking for.

[Jetrel]

I do that, but the hard levels are designed to be save loaded, and so are almost impossible to do without save cheating.

Depends on the campaign. For instance it seems that Northern Rebirth is more or less agreed to be nearly impossible on the hardest difficulty, without saveloading. Maybe some other campaigns or scenarios as well. Campaigns like HttT, tSG and TRoW are certainly doable on hard without saveloading. Of course you often need to know what you're doing and have played the scenario before so you know from the start what strategy to pursue.

There's always gonna be some yahoo, though, who'll falsely profess to have beaten it, and simply says that everyone else isn't good enough.

A good litmus test would be to code something into a game that makes certain things _literally_ impossible to do unless the player cheats. Things that look like they should theoretically be possible, but just barely aren't. And then watch the n00bs haggle people for "obviously not -really- knowing how to play the game".

[Doc Paterson]

A good litmus test would be to code something into a game that makes certain things _literally_ impossible to do unless the player cheats. Things that look like they should theoretically be possible, but just barely aren't. And then watch the n00bs haggle people for "obviously not -really- knowing how to play the game".

That seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through to root something out that is easily discernible from a replay.

Just another message from the "Oh Yeah? Let's See It" Committee.

[Mcswan]

Other turned based games save the random number sequence in the save file, and if you do the same thing again, you'll get exactly the same result. This can still be beaten though by attacking in a different order.

A better plan might be to only allow one save file that automatically gets saved after every random number event. This way you could never go "back in time" but you'd be able to load and continue play when ever.

(Ps. I did mean resurrect, I know about the recall power.)

[Dave]

Other turned based games save the random number sequence in the save file, and if you do the same thing again, you'll get exactly the same result. This can still be beaten though by attacking in a different order.

A better plan might be to only allow one save file that automatically gets saved after every random number event. This way you could never go "back in time" but you'd be able to load and continue play when ever.

We could build in limitations like this, but it's against our philosophy.

We recommend you play the game without save-loading. But, if you do save-load, we're not going to stop you. You're playing using your computer, on your time, you can do whatever you want.

David

[Mcswan]

Save- loading is to me like giving players 30,000 gold at the start and telling them to only use 120 gold of it. I'm not suggesting you remove save loading entirely, only remove it from the hardest levels of the game. That way people will focus more on the strategy of the game, and not do things like send 1 goblin verse 3 knights, knowing the goblin will win because of save loading.ie save - loading trumps all other strategies.

It's like in red alert 1, where tanks beat everything, It was pointless doing any other strategy.

If people don't like it, then they can play the easy level , or an alternative hard level with saving, but less kudos.

[turin]

Why should we restrict the freedom of the user to screw himself out of good gameplay? It's not like you GET anything for winning on hard difficulty, other than the satisfaction of winning on hard difficulty. If you want to claim to have won Northern Rebirth on impossible, fine, and if you want to waste hour after hour save-loading your way through it, fine - why should the devs give a damn?

Conversely, if you want to get through a campaign without saveloading, just do so. Why does the game need to force you to?

[JW]

If you can't keep yourself from Save/Loading in Wesnoth, you're going to have a very hard time in life when you're faced with real temptations that face you.

Consider using your integrity.



-Just a thought.