Tell me how to win mirror matches
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Tell me how to win mirror matches
This is something that has been bugging me for a while. I have two related quandaries:
1) If two players draw the same faction, what units should be hired and how should they be used? JW's "How to Play..." does not cover this in enough detail, and with at least one faction he does not cover it all. I would like to see each individual faction mirror match explained in here.
2) During a mirror match, an opponent is sitting with defenders around his villages. He does not attack your territory until you break your troops over these defenses. How do you get the upper hand?
1) If two players draw the same faction, what units should be hired and how should they be used? JW's "How to Play..." does not cover this in enough detail, and with at least one faction he does not cover it all. I would like to see each individual faction mirror match explained in here.
2) During a mirror match, an opponent is sitting with defenders around his villages. He does not attack your territory until you break your troops over these defenses. How do you get the upper hand?
Remember, when fighting any faction, your assessment of what to recruit should be based on the unit combinations your opponent uses. Not just the faction they're using. Even against the same faction, you can leverage resistant setups, damage, range and terrain. For example, when playing Loyalists or Elves, you can use Wose or H.I. to defend against a broad number of melee attackers or pierce users, even on poorer terrain. Still, these units are not insurmountable because there are still Mages to attack them with the power of fire! Or when playing Knalgans, mountains are usually the primest piece of realestate, so you can recruit poachers to take forrest hexes which are intertwined with hills to lure them off the peaks. Again with Knalgans, Ulfs can quickly kill Thunderers, which can attack fighters without retaliation damage. Fighters then of course, easily kill Ulfs. If you're having trouble with a particular faction vs. same setup, please specify and I'll try to give some additional advice.
For the second question, it sounds to me more like an issue involving general tactics, rather then a faction vs. same issue. It might be more prevailing in faction vs. same, since unit vs. unit counters aren't quite as clear cut in some cases.
One possibility may be that you need to bait to worse terrain by sending a couple of units out onto low defensible, surrounded by low defensible. The opponent may want to take the option of trying to get the initial kill and leave whatever they were using in a more vulnerable position then what they were in before. Be sure to have reinforcements nearby though, to take advantage of their lessened positioning by killing because if you don't, the potential sacrifice is pointless.
If your opponent still refuses to budge, then you might be able to creep over and form an initiative, if you have strong enough attack power. Try this when you have magic casters, poisoners or Ulfs to reduce the effectiveness of the village's defensive properties (healing and defense), supplemented by general purpose units. The reason why you want the general purpose units is mostly to defend your village buster(s) but still be easily able to reassign them to attack should the extra attacking power be needed to make progress, or the enemy decides to fight you on equal grounds.
I suggest this because usually, a successful initiative is the first step to victory. Still, it's risky to fight the opposing army when they have a clear terrain advantage so it might be better just to wait them out in some circumstances. If you do decide to go for it though, be sure to have a clear retreat route incase you fail. The worst fear one can have involving a failed initiative is often being encircled and being forced to fight a losing battle, with few to no survivors at the end. Having a planned retreat if a turn points to things not going your way, and retaining enough defensive forces to help escort the weakened to safety is a key point in being able to continue with the game.
For the second question, it sounds to me more like an issue involving general tactics, rather then a faction vs. same issue. It might be more prevailing in faction vs. same, since unit vs. unit counters aren't quite as clear cut in some cases.
One possibility may be that you need to bait to worse terrain by sending a couple of units out onto low defensible, surrounded by low defensible. The opponent may want to take the option of trying to get the initial kill and leave whatever they were using in a more vulnerable position then what they were in before. Be sure to have reinforcements nearby though, to take advantage of their lessened positioning by killing because if you don't, the potential sacrifice is pointless.
If your opponent still refuses to budge, then you might be able to creep over and form an initiative, if you have strong enough attack power. Try this when you have magic casters, poisoners or Ulfs to reduce the effectiveness of the village's defensive properties (healing and defense), supplemented by general purpose units. The reason why you want the general purpose units is mostly to defend your village buster(s) but still be easily able to reassign them to attack should the extra attacking power be needed to make progress, or the enemy decides to fight you on equal grounds.
I suggest this because usually, a successful initiative is the first step to victory. Still, it's risky to fight the opposing army when they have a clear terrain advantage so it might be better just to wait them out in some circumstances. If you do decide to go for it though, be sure to have a clear retreat route incase you fail. The worst fear one can have involving a failed initiative is often being encircled and being forced to fight a losing battle, with few to no survivors at the end. Having a planned retreat if a turn points to things not going your way, and retaining enough defensive forces to help escort the weakened to safety is a key point in being able to continue with the game.
If your enemy plays too defensively on any map with multiple fronts then it is fairly easy to outnumber him on any one front.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
Pointing the obvious, you will need a different strategy for each mirror match, and even this strategy may differ from map to map.
Answering the first question is hard since there are 6 factions, so I will just talk about one to give a example. If its a Drake x Drake match I'd build Clashers, Augurs, Gliders and Saurians. You damage with Clashers (piercing for drakes, blade for saurians) and Augurs (magic cold), and surround / steal villages with Saurians and Gliders. Note Gliders have Marksman and are good Saurian finishers. Other factions will have other strategies.
To the 2nd question is a bit harder. To say the truth, sitting AROUND the village isn't always the best defensive tactic. Outside the guy in the village, the other troops are exposed and you can focus on then instead of the village.
But if instead of this he made a good defensive formation, with a strong/resilient unit with in the village with several units nearby on almost all good terrains and blocking part of your way...
You will need to found a weak sde, move units to this weak side, wait the good time of the day (if applicable) and hope when you reach there this side is still weak. If you are lucky you can outsmart him, if not, you may need to play cat and mouse for a LOT of time.
Answering the first question is hard since there are 6 factions, so I will just talk about one to give a example. If its a Drake x Drake match I'd build Clashers, Augurs, Gliders and Saurians. You damage with Clashers (piercing for drakes, blade for saurians) and Augurs (magic cold), and surround / steal villages with Saurians and Gliders. Note Gliders have Marksman and are good Saurian finishers. Other factions will have other strategies.
To the 2nd question is a bit harder. To say the truth, sitting AROUND the village isn't always the best defensive tactic. Outside the guy in the village, the other troops are exposed and you can focus on then instead of the village.
But if instead of this he made a good defensive formation, with a strong/resilient unit with in the village with several units nearby on almost all good terrains and blocking part of your way...
You will need to found a weak sde, move units to this weak side, wait the good time of the day (if applicable) and hope when you reach there this side is still weak. If you are lucky you can outsmart him, if not, you may need to play cat and mouse for a LOT of time.
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BIG_LIZARD_PWNZ
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- Joined: September 14th, 2006, 5:08 pm
I have already tried to make other people assume that truth. However, they don't listen. All people wanna be baddy necromancers.BIG_LIZARD_PWNZ wrote:u d0nt bu1ld un1ts 1n w35n0th
u R3CRU1T TH3M!
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
The main Reble offensive units (i.e. mages, and sometimes woses) are lawfull. Knalgans win with tactical pinning/good use of ulfserkers griffons theives thunders pouchers and other units. The outlaws are chaotic so although there is not as much TOD there is TOD. I sort of agree with you on the tendancy of Knalgan vs Knalgan games to bog down however I have broken to many of that type of game to say that they are defence orintated. I never have had problems with reble vs reble games bogging down, mages and woses at day (with support) break down elven fortifications fairly well.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
In those match-ups if you wish to utilize ToD, you might like to attack when your aligned units have an advantage and defend when they don't. Granted this isn't always helpful because your opponent will try to do the same things you do.
I think UngeheuerLich had an interesting point on mirrored ToD here. To reproduce exactly what I find of interest, the last player can expect all retaliation damage to be in the next ToD cycle rather then in the current one. This allows the player to utilize their optimal time of day, then expect their mirrored alignment opponent to retaliate in a slightly more "off" cycle. It's somewhat useful in every mirror strategy, since every faction in the default era has at least a handful of lawful or chaotic units.
Also on Beholder's Drake vs. Drake strategy, if I were to improve upon it, I'd suggest use fighters instead of gliders if you use either and try to avoid both unless the map has a large amount of forest or water that you want to pass through easily. Aguars and clashers are so combat effective here, that other units are somewhat wasteful of your gold resources.
Extreme caution in advancement is also advised because when Aguars and Clashers actually do fight, it gets messy, reeeeeeaaaaaaaal messy. Blood, guts 'n scales everywhere man... I imagine that after the units are killed, the Clashers slice out whatever is still usable and the Auguars cryogenically freeze the leftover parts for transportation. It's probably why Drakes are such a virile race, no shortage of organs for transplants. Well... until the Necromancers start stealing them for their drake corpses anyway...
I think UngeheuerLich had an interesting point on mirrored ToD here. To reproduce exactly what I find of interest, the last player can expect all retaliation damage to be in the next ToD cycle rather then in the current one. This allows the player to utilize their optimal time of day, then expect their mirrored alignment opponent to retaliate in a slightly more "off" cycle. It's somewhat useful in every mirror strategy, since every faction in the default era has at least a handful of lawful or chaotic units.
Also on Beholder's Drake vs. Drake strategy, if I were to improve upon it, I'd suggest use fighters instead of gliders if you use either and try to avoid both unless the map has a large amount of forest or water that you want to pass through easily. Aguars and clashers are so combat effective here, that other units are somewhat wasteful of your gold resources.
Extreme caution in advancement is also advised because when Aguars and Clashers actually do fight, it gets messy, reeeeeeaaaaaaaal messy. Blood, guts 'n scales everywhere man... I imagine that after the units are killed, the Clashers slice out whatever is still usable and the Auguars cryogenically freeze the leftover parts for transportation. It's probably why Drakes are such a virile race, no shortage of organs for transplants. Well... until the Necromancers start stealing them for their drake corpses anyway...