Comparison between Winwar2 Wesnoth and War/Starcraft
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Comparison between Winwar2 Wesnoth and War/Starcraft
Comparison between chess winwar2 wesnoth sc/wc games
Definition of Time in the game
Chess
Chess are fully totally turn based with a maximum of 2 players
Winwar2
Was turn based with a custom number of players
Became real time event based in which units move when they want and the move takes a defined delay (usually long)
Winwar2 took a time transformation that shoul be easy for wesnoth to implement since both games are turn-based-like
To describe the gme well would be saying Event Based in which units receive orders then enter a wait status until
a certain delay has passed, if all actions would be done at each 1.00 minutes it would be like a real time diplomacy
in which all moves are done at the sametime
Wesnoth
Turn based with a maximum of 8 players
Auras like leadership and the fact that a unit can attack when atacked make it less TB-pure than chess
War/StarCraft
Real time based (too many fps to be considered turn based at all like winwar2 which is event based)
Definition of Space
Chess
a 8x8 square made of squares
1 unit 1 square
Winwar2
Before it was a rectangle made of squares in which going lefter of the left-most column ended up in the rightest column
The newest version became a graph of custom-made polygons making the maps more similar to a Risk board
Units are mostly a polygon's property rather than having its own space.
Westnoth
Hexagonal based space with the particulary that each Hexagone has a terrain type.
1 unit 1 hexagone
War/Starcraft
Square-Hexagonal based of very very small pieces that should be considered as continous
Units have size and can cover many such pieces
Definition of Movements
Chess
2 kinds of movements the straigh lines until you are locked by a unit and the knight jumpy moves
Winwar2
Each unit types have movement points like Wesnoth, but there is 3 different kind of units: air sea land
In newer versions air units must base in sea units or in zone controlled grounds and attack by jumping to polygons
near enought (graph based distances due o polygons) their base. Sea unit can only dock in coastal land.
Land units can only go on sea by being loaded in sea units.
Wesnoth
Each units have movement points, which are spent in function or the terrains and their foottype
Units mp can vary with unit status.
War/Starcraft
Units got a speed stat that can be modified, like other games units can be slowed or blocked by other units
moving around it.
Superposition of units?
Chess
When it happens the enemy unit is discarded.
Winwar2
Based on that, there is a limited amount of differen units that can be stacked togetter in great numbers, to a point
where units become hitpoints. Some units are even made to load other units. Units can be splited in unitary quantities
Wesnoth
Impossible
War/Starcraft
Unit can be loaded in other units units can be stacked with bugs, air units can stacks too, very small ground units
can look like stacking even when they dont.
Range and attacks Definition
Chess
Same as movement
Winwar2
Units fight in the same polygon in which the battle is tacking place, like Risk.
Some abilities like bombard allow units to make action in adjacent polygons
Attacks are calculated from unit type properties multiplied by units quantities.
There is air land and water (3) attack types.
Wesnoth
Everything is played from adjacent polygons.
There is 6 attack types. With customiable resists to them.
The system of attack type is to be writen manually and cannot be customized by new attack types.
War/Starcraft
Each unit have a range stat than never get under melee (like Winwar2 and Risk which stacks)
Units have customizable attacks and armors, armors being a customized preset of resists,
this make the game encoding much simpler than wesnoth in which each unit have his own resist,
In warcraft to balance attack types and resists of units is a kid's game of only opening the premade
armor types which acts like sets of resists, which is much more clear and is applied to many similar
units at same time.
Wesnoth is penalized by having the same code rewritten to units which have the same resists.
It is a programmation level flaw of Wesnoth in comparison to War/Starcraft.
There is also movement modifiers and defense modifiers which are regrouped like this.
In starcraft there were almost 1 attack type for each unit, they simplified the main-game types for
Warcraft, while making them customizable in the editor.
Action definition
Chess
1 turn 1 action
Winwar2
an action is unit production and movement (which become attacks when a polygon has unallied troops in it)
Wesnoth
an action occur at a turn start (healings made by units, units receiving heals by standing in an terrain (village))
by recruiting units in a dungeon
an action can be done when a unit attack by units around it (leadership, auras)
an movement and an attack for each unit for each round
leveling after an attack
some advanced maps have shops that sell upgrades and single-unit upgrades (almost like discardable items)
no map in which item receiping has been reported
When attacked units always counter attack, and a player cannot decide how they will counter
Except for few maps where when a unit kill his enemy he can gain mp and move again to attack again,
In both counter and attack again after a kill, units can have an infinite number of attacks.
Also a flying ranged unit can be melee attacked by a melee ground unit, which is not logical.
War/Starcraft
an action is unit production (making units, searching upgrades, buying items)
an action is attacking, spellcasting, unit mutating (like leveling)
this is much better than wesnoth in which an action is always attack based
except for the rare upon turn actions
Abilities/Status/Upgrades
Chess None
Winwar2
Terrains can have status such as being radioactive. You can also upgrade things in terrains.
You can upgrade units and abilities.
Wesnoth
Units can level, some maps added shops to upgrade units, some events can happen and modify the map (hexagonal properties)
Units get status from attacks or by standing on a particular terrain.
It is to note that each units have a race, which is a preset of day time bonus, number of allowed traits, etc.
With that they have random traits from the race and abilities from the units. All of the latest should be managed as
abilities. There is also abilities based on attacks like magical and slow. On the contrary of War/Starcraft, which i believe
is a flaw, action like move and attack are distinct from abilities, which make the trail of everything disperse in a "tree of chaos".
Abilities are stats modifiers, passive turn based, terrain based (village) time of day based, adjacent unit based (turn or attack based),
menu based, attack based, some will consider movement based, but those are in fact adjacent unit based, or terrain based.
Some splash based on auras (adjacen squares) no splash based on chain of units,or terrain type.
The "race, traits, abilities, attack effects aura and status" is extremely difficult to manage while coding.
Units can have as many different attack as they want. It would be clearer if the traits and stats-based abilities files be together.
War/Starcraft
You can cut trees, build trees, buildings units, you can limitely change terrain stats.
Terrain have height stats that adds miss chances for ranged.
Units can have tons of status from spells, auras abilities, etc.
Also Daytime/Night-time bonus.
Move, attack, spells being actions you can manage them as the same things.
There is splash effects based on zones, adjacent units, etc.
Beside spells and status, units have usually no more than 2 normal attacks.
Mana point based actions to limit the use of some spells. Experience points exist in warcraft3.
Like Wesnoth have menu based actions.
Visibility
Chess ...You see all
Winwar2
You can have many variation, in which you see all, you see only you and your allies, only you, it can vary on your spy tech
Submarines are invisible.
Wesnoth
Fog of War system, ambush and nightshade allow some unit depending on time and terrain to be invisible.
War/Starcaft
Fog of War system, can have invisible units, cloaked units, etc. They tried making invisible units unable to perform actions
other than move in warcraft3 but it was bypassed by skilled editor users.
Editing/AI/Multiplayers/Development
Chess You can make any variation you want. Its good for AI and MP.
Winwar2
In the older versions you could set the text files. In the newer, you must build polygonic maps which is hazardous but rewarding,
there is also a wide choice of AI for the usual World map. Multiplaying is hazardous. Development was made by a core team of skilled
programmers supported by a group of skilled users.
Wesnoth
Basic AI are somewhat poor, multiplaying is hellish because of unsynchronised games, which all MP players have experienced.
The extension system is worse than hellish, having entire factions disapearing, splitting faction in eras, migrating factions in eras...
Everyone can modify his game text files, making unsynchronisation worse.
I just cannot understand why when someone join a game he just cannot dowload the addons for the map there, and why, then, you need
to restart the game for it to apply, it seems you cant even open those files from a running game.
The synchronisation system is absurd since it could be set by a simple load of the host's game maps and units stats,
in other words, a reset, as soon as that bug is detected. Development was quite open to allow users to do different things,
however slowy developpers began imposing their way of view the game over the game engine making it less adaptable.
War/Starcraft
AI is good. Multiplayer system works well with maps being dowloaded and installed while waiting in a game room, with the system that allow
users to change races by themselves in the game room. The editor gets better and better allowing to almost rebuild the game completely with
each new SC/WC. Until now the only place where the developpers tried to impose their way of view, the actionless invisible unit of Warcraft3 crumbled before skilled game editors. Blizzard tend to help custom games such as DOTA and TD while similar maps on Wesnoth must be worked almost as much as in Winwar2 by users. The Era system of Wesnoth had a similar thing in SC but blizzard changed to allow each map to have its own unit tree and system. The worst problem in Wesnoth is even if you work that out, you cant play it in multiplayer for no one can dowload it by the Wesnoth extension system, so you must workout doing all uploads manually, with the pain of having to restart Wesnoth with each of them.
Definition of Time in the game
Chess
Chess are fully totally turn based with a maximum of 2 players
Winwar2
Was turn based with a custom number of players
Became real time event based in which units move when they want and the move takes a defined delay (usually long)
Winwar2 took a time transformation that shoul be easy for wesnoth to implement since both games are turn-based-like
To describe the gme well would be saying Event Based in which units receive orders then enter a wait status until
a certain delay has passed, if all actions would be done at each 1.00 minutes it would be like a real time diplomacy
in which all moves are done at the sametime
Wesnoth
Turn based with a maximum of 8 players
Auras like leadership and the fact that a unit can attack when atacked make it less TB-pure than chess
War/StarCraft
Real time based (too many fps to be considered turn based at all like winwar2 which is event based)
Definition of Space
Chess
a 8x8 square made of squares
1 unit 1 square
Winwar2
Before it was a rectangle made of squares in which going lefter of the left-most column ended up in the rightest column
The newest version became a graph of custom-made polygons making the maps more similar to a Risk board
Units are mostly a polygon's property rather than having its own space.
Westnoth
Hexagonal based space with the particulary that each Hexagone has a terrain type.
1 unit 1 hexagone
War/Starcraft
Square-Hexagonal based of very very small pieces that should be considered as continous
Units have size and can cover many such pieces
Definition of Movements
Chess
2 kinds of movements the straigh lines until you are locked by a unit and the knight jumpy moves
Winwar2
Each unit types have movement points like Wesnoth, but there is 3 different kind of units: air sea land
In newer versions air units must base in sea units or in zone controlled grounds and attack by jumping to polygons
near enought (graph based distances due o polygons) their base. Sea unit can only dock in coastal land.
Land units can only go on sea by being loaded in sea units.
Wesnoth
Each units have movement points, which are spent in function or the terrains and their foottype
Units mp can vary with unit status.
War/Starcraft
Units got a speed stat that can be modified, like other games units can be slowed or blocked by other units
moving around it.
Superposition of units?
Chess
When it happens the enemy unit is discarded.
Winwar2
Based on that, there is a limited amount of differen units that can be stacked togetter in great numbers, to a point
where units become hitpoints. Some units are even made to load other units. Units can be splited in unitary quantities
Wesnoth
Impossible
War/Starcraft
Unit can be loaded in other units units can be stacked with bugs, air units can stacks too, very small ground units
can look like stacking even when they dont.
Range and attacks Definition
Chess
Same as movement
Winwar2
Units fight in the same polygon in which the battle is tacking place, like Risk.
Some abilities like bombard allow units to make action in adjacent polygons
Attacks are calculated from unit type properties multiplied by units quantities.
There is air land and water (3) attack types.
Wesnoth
Everything is played from adjacent polygons.
There is 6 attack types. With customiable resists to them.
The system of attack type is to be writen manually and cannot be customized by new attack types.
War/Starcraft
Each unit have a range stat than never get under melee (like Winwar2 and Risk which stacks)
Units have customizable attacks and armors, armors being a customized preset of resists,
this make the game encoding much simpler than wesnoth in which each unit have his own resist,
In warcraft to balance attack types and resists of units is a kid's game of only opening the premade
armor types which acts like sets of resists, which is much more clear and is applied to many similar
units at same time.
Wesnoth is penalized by having the same code rewritten to units which have the same resists.
It is a programmation level flaw of Wesnoth in comparison to War/Starcraft.
There is also movement modifiers and defense modifiers which are regrouped like this.
In starcraft there were almost 1 attack type for each unit, they simplified the main-game types for
Warcraft, while making them customizable in the editor.
Action definition
Chess
1 turn 1 action
Winwar2
an action is unit production and movement (which become attacks when a polygon has unallied troops in it)
Wesnoth
an action occur at a turn start (healings made by units, units receiving heals by standing in an terrain (village))
by recruiting units in a dungeon
an action can be done when a unit attack by units around it (leadership, auras)
an movement and an attack for each unit for each round
leveling after an attack
some advanced maps have shops that sell upgrades and single-unit upgrades (almost like discardable items)
no map in which item receiping has been reported
When attacked units always counter attack, and a player cannot decide how they will counter
Except for few maps where when a unit kill his enemy he can gain mp and move again to attack again,
In both counter and attack again after a kill, units can have an infinite number of attacks.
Also a flying ranged unit can be melee attacked by a melee ground unit, which is not logical.
War/Starcraft
an action is unit production (making units, searching upgrades, buying items)
an action is attacking, spellcasting, unit mutating (like leveling)
this is much better than wesnoth in which an action is always attack based
except for the rare upon turn actions
Abilities/Status/Upgrades
Chess None
Winwar2
Terrains can have status such as being radioactive. You can also upgrade things in terrains.
You can upgrade units and abilities.
Wesnoth
Units can level, some maps added shops to upgrade units, some events can happen and modify the map (hexagonal properties)
Units get status from attacks or by standing on a particular terrain.
It is to note that each units have a race, which is a preset of day time bonus, number of allowed traits, etc.
With that they have random traits from the race and abilities from the units. All of the latest should be managed as
abilities. There is also abilities based on attacks like magical and slow. On the contrary of War/Starcraft, which i believe
is a flaw, action like move and attack are distinct from abilities, which make the trail of everything disperse in a "tree of chaos".
Abilities are stats modifiers, passive turn based, terrain based (village) time of day based, adjacent unit based (turn or attack based),
menu based, attack based, some will consider movement based, but those are in fact adjacent unit based, or terrain based.
Some splash based on auras (adjacen squares) no splash based on chain of units,or terrain type.
The "race, traits, abilities, attack effects aura and status" is extremely difficult to manage while coding.
Units can have as many different attack as they want. It would be clearer if the traits and stats-based abilities files be together.
War/Starcraft
You can cut trees, build trees, buildings units, you can limitely change terrain stats.
Terrain have height stats that adds miss chances for ranged.
Units can have tons of status from spells, auras abilities, etc.
Also Daytime/Night-time bonus.
Move, attack, spells being actions you can manage them as the same things.
There is splash effects based on zones, adjacent units, etc.
Beside spells and status, units have usually no more than 2 normal attacks.
Mana point based actions to limit the use of some spells. Experience points exist in warcraft3.
Like Wesnoth have menu based actions.
Visibility
Chess ...You see all
Winwar2
You can have many variation, in which you see all, you see only you and your allies, only you, it can vary on your spy tech
Submarines are invisible.
Wesnoth
Fog of War system, ambush and nightshade allow some unit depending on time and terrain to be invisible.
War/Starcaft
Fog of War system, can have invisible units, cloaked units, etc. They tried making invisible units unable to perform actions
other than move in warcraft3 but it was bypassed by skilled editor users.
Editing/AI/Multiplayers/Development
Chess You can make any variation you want. Its good for AI and MP.
Winwar2
In the older versions you could set the text files. In the newer, you must build polygonic maps which is hazardous but rewarding,
there is also a wide choice of AI for the usual World map. Multiplaying is hazardous. Development was made by a core team of skilled
programmers supported by a group of skilled users.
Wesnoth
Basic AI are somewhat poor, multiplaying is hellish because of unsynchronised games, which all MP players have experienced.
The extension system is worse than hellish, having entire factions disapearing, splitting faction in eras, migrating factions in eras...
Everyone can modify his game text files, making unsynchronisation worse.
I just cannot understand why when someone join a game he just cannot dowload the addons for the map there, and why, then, you need
to restart the game for it to apply, it seems you cant even open those files from a running game.
The synchronisation system is absurd since it could be set by a simple load of the host's game maps and units stats,
in other words, a reset, as soon as that bug is detected. Development was quite open to allow users to do different things,
however slowy developpers began imposing their way of view the game over the game engine making it less adaptable.
War/Starcraft
AI is good. Multiplayer system works well with maps being dowloaded and installed while waiting in a game room, with the system that allow
users to change races by themselves in the game room. The editor gets better and better allowing to almost rebuild the game completely with
each new SC/WC. Until now the only place where the developpers tried to impose their way of view, the actionless invisible unit of Warcraft3 crumbled before skilled game editors. Blizzard tend to help custom games such as DOTA and TD while similar maps on Wesnoth must be worked almost as much as in Winwar2 by users. The Era system of Wesnoth had a similar thing in SC but blizzard changed to allow each map to have its own unit tree and system. The worst problem in Wesnoth is even if you work that out, you cant play it in multiplayer for no one can dowload it by the Wesnoth extension system, so you must workout doing all uploads manually, with the pain of having to restart Wesnoth with each of them.
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Kestenvarn
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- Joined: August 19th, 2005, 7:30 pm
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irrevenant
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 3692
- Joined: August 15th, 2005, 7:57 am
- Location: I'm all around you.
Wow that's a lot of text!
Can you please clarify what the actual idea being proposed is?
Can you please clarify what the actual idea being proposed is?
Want to post a Wesnoth idea? Great! Read these:
Frequently Posted Ideas Thread
Giving your idea the best chance of acceptance
Frequently Posted Ideas Thread
Giving your idea the best chance of acceptance
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Maeglin Dubh
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 1154
- Joined: November 16th, 2005, 8:38 pm
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Psst! I don't really think it's an idea, more some sort of essay.
But it's my girlfriend's birthday today, so I'm not going to do any moddy stuff on it. Official holiday and all, you understand. So I'll leave it to my fellow Sith. My recommendation, if no clarification is provided, is the OT section.
But it's my girlfriend's birthday today, so I'm not going to do any moddy stuff on it. Official holiday and all, you understand. So I'll leave it to my fellow Sith. My recommendation, if no clarification is provided, is the OT section.
Cuyo Quiz wrote:I really should push for Temuchin's brainstorming with all my might someday, when the skies are cloudy, the winds dance and the light is free to roam over the soil along the fog.
One of the main idea is to set the desynchronisation bug by a reload of the host's game when the bug is detected.
Yes it would be annpying, but much less than when people can see that they aint seeing the same screen, writing notes where their units are, but unable to set the game or reset it on someone's game.
The comparison is also a way to brainstorm ideas from other games.
Yes it would be annpying, but much less than when people can see that they aint seeing the same screen, writing notes where their units are, but unable to set the game or reset it on someone's game.
The comparison is also a way to brainstorm ideas from other games.
-
Kestenvarn
- Inactive Developer
- Posts: 1307
- Joined: August 19th, 2005, 7:30 pm
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