The Qesicans (Development Stage: Art/Submission to the EE)

[Gresnor]

I agree, Temuchin, if it's too similar, there would be no point, and the faction would be boring anyways. Fortunately, I don't believe there is a "fine line" when it comes to too similar or too different.

If you look at the steppe orcs, they bring "dread" to the table, and the hunters are quite unique, as well, but their fighters are pretty standard, the shieldbearers are something that's never been done before, but they don't have any new specials or new traits, they're just a mobile wall, which is pretty neat, but they have a pretty standard magic user, pretty standard fighter, etc. etc.

In my book I would say they are more similar than they are different to the other EE factions, bear in mind, this is my opinion.

[Qes]

I agree, Temuchin, if it's too similar, there would be no point, and the faction would be boring anyways. Fortunately, I don't believe there is a "fine line" when it comes to too similar or too different.

If you look at the steppe orcs, they bring "dread" to the table, and the hunters are quite unique, as well, but their fighters are pretty standard, the shieldbearers are something that's never been done before, but they don't have any new specials or new traits, they're just a mobile wall, which is pretty neat, but they have a pretty standard magic user, pretty standard fighter, etc. etc.

In my book I would say they are more similar than they are different to the other EE factions, bear in mind, this is my opinion.

But gres, it comes down to what "defines" a faction. What is the "it" of playing a faction that people go for?

If people choose the Steppe, its often because of the wonderful shieldwall ability. Its not for the standard units.

If people choose the Aragwaithi, its because of their class-cannon nature across the board.

If people go for the Drakes, its usually for the flight, fire and mobility of the faction they love.
Etc. etc.


What happens, when you invent a faction that's main theme is the fact that it relies not on any sort of standard military prowess (i.e. hp and damage output) but instead on the clever use of special abilities?

What happens when "that" becomes the reason to play them?

We have discussed their potential implementation into the Era of Myths, because as I agree, they're are a bunch of units with super awesome powers, and everything seems powerful.

But I found myself not enjoying it as much, because when you can play as anything in "uberized" format, nothing feels "uberized". One needs a "foil" or "standard" to rest up against.

I get the the Qesicans are "specials/abilities heavy" but the only reason that is acceptable, in my mind, is because all the other factions are not. If other another faction were especially specials/ability dependant, I'd not have made the Qesicans that way, because that role/style would have been 'taken'. As it is, the Windsong look to be a bit specials heavy, but since they and the Qesicans were made in tandum (and are potentially story-line rivals) that's acceptable.

I like each faction to be and "feel" different. When every faction feels super ability-laden, then none of them do. Its "too much." And the idea that a "specials/ability heavy" faction is not inherantly more powerful (more likely to win) than a non-laden one, it strikes me as though it might be balanced.

The idea is like building a deck in magic the gathering. One can go the "simple" route. Of getting basic monsters, getting basic lands, and attacking and defending the normal basic ways.

But, one could build an equally powerful deck, that relinquishes some of the power of the "basics" and instead goes for the "special" abilities route. If one wanted to play without ANY creatures - that's different, but playable. IF one wants to play with ONLY creatures, and no land at all - thats dooable, though difficult.

These "magic deck" examples are meant to illistrate, i hope, the "playstyle" differences people enjoy and dont enjoy. I understand that many like the "standard modes" of playstyle. But, does that mean we forbade someone who plays "differently" from playing with us? If still by the same set of rules?

The rules of wesnoth are still the same for an ability-laden faction. One must have gold, one must purchase units, and one must attack and kill enemy units. This hasnt changed.

Only the manners of "how" have changed. And as long as the manners of "how" are not more or less powerful than each other - yet wholey different in approach, does not balance create an acceptability if not preference?


I should state this, and I'd like feedback:

I dont mind if people dont want to play as the Qesicans.

I dont mind if people don't want to play against the Qesicans because their tough to beat. Sorta like how I feel when I play against the drakes, or the Kalifa or hell even the outlaws sometimes.

I do mind if people dont want to play with the qesicans, and would forbade their use in their games.

My question is this, given the expectation that you'd not play as them - would any of you reading this, not ever want them to be played in any game you run or are going to participate in? Are they offensive in some capacity?

If the answer is no, then I believe them almost ready for entry into the EE (With some balancing of the new shadow-walker line being necessary yet)

-Qes

[lu_zero]

Updated

v.54

-pbl now mentions dependancy on "Extended Era" (I think)
-monk line made "lawful"
-Trait "spiritual" removed
-Trait "psychic" added: Add's first strike to melee attacks: Pebblemancer only
-Added trait "loyal" to Monk possibilities
- Added: Shadow Walker, Spirit Walker, Dream Walker, Void Walker units
-Added "Daystalk" ability - grants invisibility during daytime
-Added "Invisibile" ability - grants invisibility at all times
-added "spirit sight" ability - grants 50% chance to hit

guess what...

[Velensk]

I had an odd experiance with this faction.

I downloaded the version with the rest of the EE
I'm not much into the extended era there are some things about it I don't like and such but I was curiouse I set both sides to random. One side was the quesians the other was the steppe orcs. Anyway I did some running around (I've never played steppe orcs before) I concluded that they played very simular to northeners except that they relied on per unit power rather than swarm power. I had a sheild (I didn't realise they couldn't attack) and so I packed it allong with an assault the few Quesians in the area were not very lucky and a couple of seemingly unposionable unslowable juggernaughts walked over them till the rest retreated. However being close the the quesian castle reinforments of balista arived and eventualy all that was left was the sheildman who had been running around stealing villages.

The balista and a pebble master and a freedmen swarmed around the sheildman and tried to kill him. I then looked at the xp requierment (which seemed to be going up pretty fast) and suddenly saw the point of the unit. Except I also saw something else. Another balista came up and they continulusly shot at him. Of course they did not kill him and of course he lvled up, but all that meant was that they got more xp a shot.
The quesians where holding their line elsewhere when finaly I disicided to stop xp farming and accualy kill that thing but by this time the battle mage was near lvling and I also had two alchemists and a freedman (who had already left for the front.

Thinking back on it it may have been better to move the sheild of the village so that he died but at the same time the income of the village allowed me to almost mount a succesful attack in the game. I don't know if this is a standard situation, but it was the first time anything of that sort has ever happened to me.
EDIT: Looking over what I wrote, it is very wierd to play against yourelf and then explain it to someone else.

[Qes]

I'm glad youre experiencing new things - the Qesicans do require the extended era to play - so perhaps that's new for you. Keep up the reports, i find them facinating.


And lu_zero...dont tell me. There should be no capitalization problems, i was careful.

-Qes

[lu_zero]

I'm glad youre experiencing new things - the Qesicans do require the extended era to play - so perhaps that's new for you. Keep up the reports, i find them facinating.


And lu_zero...dont tell me. There should be no capitalization problems, i was careful.

-Qes

the main configuration as some "Era" instead of "era" ^^

played a bit and using qesicans+windsongs is quite fun ^^

[Fred]

speaking of non-default eras and factions, where could I go to get help downloading them? I am having problems getting them from one computer to another via jump drive, and I would like to get someone to help me properly download the eras.

[Shadow]

Another thing I donwloaded you faction but haven't played yet. I'm rather busy but you have left some images in the image folder. Probably old place holders and or collections from the graphic library. The just increase the download size. I don't think they are necessary.

[Gresnor]

Well, buddy, I tried, there's not much point in further debating this with you. And I'm sorry that my distaste for the faction bothers you. I expect you to review my faction ideas and to give me the same amount of input, hopefully!

[Velensk]

I'm glad youre experiencing new things - the Qesicans do require the extended era to play - so perhaps that's new for you. Keep up the reports, i find them facinating.


And lu_zero...dont tell me. There should be no capitalization problems, i was careful.

-Qes

I've played the extended era before but I don't realy like it much (in fact now that I've played the steppe orcs I've played all the difrent factions. The reason I downloaded the new quesian era I was curiouse how Quesians would play with factions other than knalgans, the Quesian era I had before contained olny knalgans/quesians. I suppose that could have been done with any easy to lvl low damage units. However the entire Quesian era fits this catagory realy.

[jgp93]

Only having done one match and not having much wesnoth experience my disqualify my comment, but when I did Qesicans v. Loyalists, my strategy was simply taking two or so freemen, and either two ballistas or roundshields (depending on whether I had ranged vs. melee strong) and I could get rid of any force, unless the 4 qesicans were outnumbered by sometimes twice the amount of men. Maybe I was missing something for loyalist strategy or qesicans have some advantages.

[Qes]

Sorry about the long delays folks, had internet troubles and got a bit busy elsewhere.
I'm back now.
-Qes

EDIT/ADD: Wow, they whomped the Loyalists that easily? Were you playing the computer or a human? Really the computer is easy to beat with any faction, so if it was that then im not so concerned.

But you did describe an effective force. The shields protect the ballista which are offensive, and the freedmen are meant to bog down an enemy. So perhaps you were just effective?

I'd try fighting a loyalist human, I suspect that trick would only work "once." Before counters started to show up in the ways of cavalry and Mages.

-Qes

[Qes]

Updated to 1.3.8 version

Version .61

-Shrank shadow walker filler art to smaller size.

-Updated EE references.

-Qes

[Qes]

I Think she's ready for entry into the Extended Era.

The art is filler and will gradually be replaced (thanks Shadow and any future potential artists who decide to tackle her). But I think they're balanced and fit for entry.

Now all I need is Noyga's blessing. So anyone who likes them, DO post here and help me convince Noyga to insert them. All the votes I can get are appreciated.

-Qes

[Tom of wesnoth]

NOYGA PUT THIS IN EXTENDED ERA!