Centralising the FAQs (was New Idea for Newbs)

[Maeglin Dubh]

Oh, we're all Peacemakers. We just do it differently.

Irrevenant makes peace by making you all like each other, and you can never figure out how. Reference Captain Carrot, Discworld series.

I make peace by locking people (and threads) up. The forum cop, even if occasionally the forum -bad- cop. Reference Commander Samuel Vimes, Discworld series. "

Thrawn usually just reminds people of the rules, and that combined with the Sith title is usually enough. Reference Grand Admiral Thrawn, Star Wars series (notorious for -not- executing inferior officers on a whim).

And yes, Irrevenant does know the forum better, as he's been at this a good bit longer than either Thrawn or I have.

[Edward V Riley]

...I should have recognized the name "Thrawn"..I like the character in the "later" Star Wars books. A tactical genius who doesn't throw away his troops for a mistake unless they don't learn from them.

http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

The evil overlord Handbook.

[Weeksy]

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[Turuk]

As far as the age thing goes, I'd have to say that the reason Wesnoth attracts mostly older players is that it focuses heavily on strategy, long-term planning, and understanding the intricate balances of units. Not exactly something that young kids want to have the patience to learn and apply.

Riley brings up a good point with the age factor, as two newbs can react differently to the same response. If a 12-year-old boy is meant to a sarcastic response to something he honestly doesn't understand, he's going to take it a lot more personally than a 32-year-old man who is well-accustomed to the nature of people in general. The issue is you don't always know the age of the person posting, and something you say sarcastically that an older man might be like man, I'm an idiot haha duhh ok, a younger player may be like man, why are they so mean, I'm just asking a question.

I'm not passing judgement on whether we should use kid gloves or not all the time, and obviously this would only be for newbs, I could care less about obnoxious noobs. But I will point out that, as we all can see, some people are much more tactful with their answers than others. Just like Maeglin pointed out above in referencing the different styles of the Sith. Each of them is effective, they just go about it in a different manner.

That being said, I would like to start to steer this thread back to a more practical nature. As Maeglin pointed out earlier, we're started to debate issues other than making the FOAFAQ, and we actually need to start doing work on said FOAFAQ to show that we're actually going to make something feasible. So what we need now is people stepping up to work on different parts of this proposed FAQ. I'm working on setting up campaign notes, links to original threads, help threads, and the like for the mainline campaigns.

Who wants to do what else?

[Iris]

shadowmaster: as a forum sith involved in development and yet not a dev, could you specify?

*Software* development. A software developer that has time, is not integral part of the Wesnoth coders team, and can address some more advanced issues that arise in Releases forum and Tech Support from time to time (one every 3 weeks or so).

[waw]

What is needed:

1. Basic Guide (I've started it so I will see what I can do, I will appreciate revisions)

2. FOA faq info (Links to all FAQS and information STICKIES on Wesnoth)

3. ADVANCED Unlike the basic section, this section will start explaining where to start and what to do if you are to being. (The Wiki is great for this.. but it fails in one area (in my opinion). It doesn't tell you HOW to start... notice that there ar ea myriad of posters always asking How do I make a campaign? The wiki is really good, and I read through it... but it left big gaps)

4. A Hierarchy tree would be nice. This way the new users will understand the differences between mods and developers and who the Admins are (I know Dave is one... don't know about any others though... I just know they're out there.... spooky!!!!)

5. Google Search explanation, and perhaps a faq on navigating through the Wesnoth website in general

6. Last but not least, a section dedicated to explaining each forum and its purpose, and examples of what you should post where.

All the Rules for the Forums should be gathered up and placed inside the FAQ as well.

[Noy]

@Forum Sith detractors-
This comes up every once in a while. Wander around teh interwebz for a while, then come back and tell me we're overly harsh. With a straight face. You're going to have a hard time doing it.

Man, I must be the devil incarnate then.

[MDG]

What is needed:

In your opinion.

3. ADVANCED Unlike the basic section, this section will start explaining where to start and what to do if you are to being. (The Wiki is great for this.. but it fails in one area (in my opinion). It doesn't tell you HOW to start... notice that there ar ea myriad of posters always asking How do I make a campaign? The wiki is really good, and I read through it... but it left big gaps)

So fill in the gaps.

4. A Hierarchy tree would be nice. This way the new users will understand the differences between mods and developers and who the Admins are (I know Dave is one... don't know about any others though... I just know they're out there.... spooky!!!!)

Agreed (as in it would be nice but only that). F.Y.I. additional admins include Ivanovic, Torangan, Xan, and Zebulon.

5. Google Search explanation, and perhaps a faq on navigating through the Wesnoth website in general

Agreed with both. Would be useful.

6. Last but not least, a section dedicated to explaining each forum and its purpose, and examples of what you should post where.

Anyone struggling to understand this probably shouldn't have an intarweb connection... (Exception for the WML Workshop as WML would be new to people). Each Forum section has a title and a description, in addition individuals can simply check what kind of topics appear to go in each section by looking.

All the Rules for the Forums should be gathered up and placed inside the FAQ as well.

I know people who will read rules but deliberately ignore FAQ's as they consider them a waste of time. The issue is, on some sites the FAQ's really are a waste of time. Many people expect posting rules/guidelines stickies...

@Forum Sith detractors-
This comes up every once in a while. Wander around teh interwebz for a while, then come back and tell me we're overly harsh. With a straight face. You're going to have a hard time doing it.

Man, I must be the devil incarnate then.

Indeed, some who think the Sith are harsh really seem to have no perspective regarding how much worse it could be for them if you got there first . Personally, you make me laugh, and I consider you to be one of the most amusing developers on the forum (when you are indulging your humour). Your post in the OT pro-life topic had me LMAO...

[irrevenant]

Okay guys, the idea has been discussed ad infinitum. It's "put up or shut up" time.

I've created a wiki page for the forum at http://www.wesnoth.org/mw/index.php?tit ... munity_FAQ. It's currently blank but I've added waw's post below with the proposed outline to the discussion page.

As far as I can see, this thread has now served its purpose. Further development on the idea can take place on the wiki page. Further discussion of the idea can take place on the associated talk page. Note: If you're unfamiliar with the wiki interface see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... dit_a_page for the more advanced stuff), or just do your best - if you put in the content, someone else can tidy up the formatting later.

As such: Locked. If anyone has any concerns with this lock, PM me.

[Jetrel]

I was asked (by waw) to comment on this thread; I'll post an unfortunately vague response, since my opinions aren't too strong.

I do think that consolidation and clear presentation of Faqs/readmes; for this forum, for example, are Good Thingsâ„¢. However, I don't know the right place to put those. Furthermore, I think Maeglin's words are spot on when he says that people just don't read "readmes". They just don't.

It's one of the great truths of the software industry; people expect to just pick up your stuff and know how to use it. The only cure to this, that I know of, would be a major change in human nature, which of course is preposterously unfeasible.

I vote for the Miyo method.

What is the Miyo method?

Miyo was an old contributor to wesnoth - actually before most of the current development team's (including Noy's) time. Miyo helped set up a lot of the infrastructure, and IIRC, handled release management. I think he also may have helped with the first linux releases. Miyo had a certain flair for handling questions from players; a player would post a long-winded, perhaps multi-page request/rant/etc, to which Miyo would reply with one succinct response:

"No."

Miyo may well have also been responsible for the timeless acronym describing our release schedule, which is "IIRWIIR - It Is Ready When It Is Ready". This method of handling things had its upsides and downsides - the upside was great efficiency of time spent by developers in answering questions. The downside was that it's like some dark anti-particle of diplomacy; it's the thing you do when you're actively trying to piss people off.

[irrevenant]

I've been requested to reopen this thread so some of the nuts and bolts of the uberFAQ can be discussed, so I have.

Keep it on topic, people.

P.S. I also renamed the thread to something more meaningful.

[Turuk]

Thank you irrevenant, it saves us from pming each other.

I am currently working on providing an updated listing of mainline campaigns, their story, difficulty, and links to the initial starting threads as well as various strategy threads that have popped up for different scenarios in each campaign. This should make it easy for new players to deal with issues without pestering the forum.

At the end of this, I will also explain/point the user to the add-on server, the additional campaigns to explore after they have tried mainline to their satisfaction.

Eventually(hopefully), I would also like to start providing notes on the campaigns on the add-on server, but I'm being realistic.

So that's my current project/contribution, anyone else? Waw, I believe you were working on writing a basic guide to put at the beginning?

[irrevenant]

Thank you irrevenant, it saves us from pming each other.

Now that the FAQ is on the wiki, it makes sense to me to hold discussion about it on the associated discussion page of the wiki, rather than the forums.

But I have no objections if you're more comfortable discussing it here.

P.S. the Posting Guidelines have some good stuff to say that should be included.