Centralising the FAQs (was New Idea for Newbs)

[MDG]

BTW, IMO what we need is a newbie-friendly forum Sith. It's Thrawn, except that he's not quite active.

You don't think Irrevenant is very newbie-friendly? And I wouldn't have said any of the Forum Sith were newbie-unfriendly. Maeglin has given the likes of Tristan and others plenty of chances and shown a great deal of forebearance where others would have snapped. You may be judging too harshly.

@Anyone/everyone whining about the Forum Sith on these forums: For me, Moderator does not equal baby-sitter. One of the most important services the Forum Sith provide is to try and keep this forum a viable collaborative tool for the ongoing development of the project and UMC. If the Forum Sith weren't actively running interference on disruptive individuals it would be the admins and developers that would have to get more involved. This implies less time spent developing. It also runs the risk of some leaving the project out of frustration. Note: I make no assumption that a disruptive individual is necessarily doing so deliberately but the end result, whether intentional or not, is still exasperating for others. I shudder at the thought of these forums without the current Forum Sith, they'd likely be a disgrace... and they do this voluntarily at the cost of their own time.

Given the choice between potentially losing developers versus potentially losing newb's? Not a difficult choice for me.

[Iris]

BTW, IMO what we need is a newbie-friendly forum Sith. It's Thrawn, except that he's not quite active.

You don't think Irrevenant is very newbie-friendly?

I always forget him! Apologies.

And I wouldn't have said any of the Forum Sith were newbie-unfriendly. Maeglin has given the likes of Tristan and others plenty of chances and shown a great deal of forebearance where others would have snapped. You may be judging too harshly.

Indeed. But I think I said already they had were excessively patient with him. I guess I'm contradicting myself. EDIT: which is something that's giving me real trouble in real life; don't know why this happens.

@Anyone/everyone whining about the Forum Sith on these forums: For me, Moderator does not equal baby-sitter. One of the most important services the Forum Sith provide is to try and keep this forum a viable collaborative tool for the ongoing development of the project and UMC. If the Forum Sith weren't actively running interference on disruptive individuals it would be the admins and developers that would have to get more involved. This implies less time spent developing. It also runs the risk of some leaving the project out of frustration. Note: I make no assumption that a disruptive individual is necessarily doing so deliberately but the end result, whether intentional or not, is still exasperating for others. I shudder at the thought of these forums without the current Forum Sith, they'd likely be a disgrace... and they do this voluntarily at the cost of their own time.

The project would have been already sued for the many attempt to violate copyrights in part of illegal UMC.

Given the choice between potentially losing developers versus potentially losing newb's? Not a difficult choice for me.

I vote for the newbies. As I said before, WINSTBNF (Wesnoth Is Not Supposed To Be Newbie-Friendly).

At least, not for the average newbie.

[Shadow]

...

Given the choice between potentially losing developers versus potentially losing newb's? Not a difficult choice for me.

I vote for the newbies. As I said before, WINSTBNF (Wesnoth Is Not Supposed To Be Newbie-Friendly).

At least, not for the average newbie.

Where starts the noob and where begins the Developer? I know some Forum goers who started from lurker to Campaign Developer, Wml experts, Animators etc... .

I started like this too I know hardly believeable.

[Noy]

I vote for the Miyo method.

[waw]

What is the Miyo method?

And I will admit, that small group of newbs that are n00bs will be n00bs... BUT, as I said... we all started somewhere. So when all of you that are saying there are good and bad newbs... even though you did go to the right places...

You didn't EVER get confused and asked for help when it was obvious EVER? (EVER includes more than this site)

What is so wrong with Newbs? I guess I should leave... I still consider myself the new guy... isn't that a newb?

[Iris]

What is the Miyo method?

One word of advice: don't question Noy's wise words.

What is so wrong with Newbs? I guess I should leave... I still consider myself the new guy... isn't that a newb?

Nope. You are new, but that doesn't make you a newbie, not at least in my dictionary. The problem here is that people can't tell the difference between newbs and n00bs. It's a hell of a difference, really.

Newbies aren't bad. n00bs are bad, though.

I once was a n00b, not here*, but somewhere else, I admit.

Word again: don't consider my post count please?

My last word on the subject: this requires a poll. And I think there should be non-developers, yet development-wise, forum siths.

[Turuk]

Yeah, waw, like SM said, there is a huge difference between newbs and n00bs. The former are interested in learning how to play the game, about becoming involved in the community, open and receptive to advice, and have a good attitude. The latter expect an easy learning curve, advice to be handed to them a minute after they ask(like skymaster), they tend to be obnoxious and have a bad attitude.

The former in a user-driven game like Wesnoth are a boon, exactly what we are looking for, and the type people don't mind helping.

The latter are a pain, and give all new players a bad name. They want to reap the benefits of everyone else's hard work and experience both playing the game and creating it without contributing their own effort or even getting involved.

[Iris]

I'm deliberately double posting for a living proof to you all of what I consider n00bish. If I were the moderator, I'd immediately merge this into my last post here, instead of immediately complaining and locking the thread, btw. If the situation continues, I'd then lock the thread.

Turuk, you spoiled my fun. And btw, newbies have good attitude and n00bs have bad one! Review your post.

And a last word for waw: you mentioned you are 18 in your first post; that immediately puts you apart from all the other newbies and n00bs, and makes you a polite beginner. Just my opinion.

[MDG]

What is the Miyo method?

It's the method Miyo uses.

Word again: don't consider my post count please?

What's with the post count paranoia? (especially when you are deliberately double posting?...)

My last word on the subject: this requires a poll. And I think there should be non-developers, yet development-wise, forum siths.

I vote against a poll.

[Turuk]

Fixed, thanks, and my apologies haha, just trying to clear the air.

[waw]

I understood about n00bs and newbs... but even newbs, in their first couple of posts, can get scared off. Are you trying to help or hurt them?

If helping... go with this FAQ idea.

[Thrawn]

Maeglin: Just wondering if you could rehash your opposition a bit more clearly.

In my opinion this would be a good thing, for a variety of reasons.

#1 It puts easy end to common n00bness.

If we make a required reading FAQ part of the registration process, even if we don't read, it is no longer our concern. We can simply link them to it, and perhaps penalize them---it's harsh, but with the FOAFAQs (father of all FAQs) we can be harsher, as there is no excuse.

#2 We can put in on our Wiki

I know people don't always read the wiki's, but part of that is them being horribly out-of date and unused. If we post a copy of the FAQ, as well as maybe move some of the other FAQs there, and make a new link up with create, home, etc it could get people to check the other out. I personally feel that the Wiki is a horribly underused resource here.

#3 It will help differentiate newcomers from n00bs

As of now, as several people have pointed out, the difference between n00b and newcomer takes awhile to distinguish, because as new people there are some stuff we all know that they don't--if they read the FAQ (because we make it required) their first posts may be more revealing.

[Maeglin Dubh]

If I were the moderator, I'd immediately merge this into my last post here, instead of immediately complaining and locking the thread, btw. If the situation continues, I'd then lock the thread.

Thank you so kindly for the lesson in how to moderate. Now, me being me, I -delete- double posts, if there's no new information. If someone is posting new ideas with each posts, (just ask Ques) I explain to them that they need to condense their posts.

@Thrawn-
I'm not opposed. I just don't think it's practical. And, given the results that have come from this thread so far, I'm right. All they have to do to prove me and my cynical pragmatism wrong is actually make said FAQ and have it actually work. It's not hard. I just think it's unlikely.
Also....

but with the FOAFAQs (father of all FAQs) we can be harsher, as there is no excuse.

Personally, I already don't think there's much of an excuse. But some seem to think there is, and if putting up another FAQ will alleviate concerns to the contrary, I don't mind. I'm just not going to do it for them.


@Forum Sith detractors-
This comes up every once in a while. Wander around teh interwebz for a while, then come back and tell me we're overly harsh. With a straight face. You're going to have a hard time doing it.

Are you trying to help or hurt them?

If helping... go with this FAQ idea.

That would be a false dichotomy.

And I think there should be non-developers, yet development-wise, forum siths.

None of us -are- developers. What does this even mean?

[Thrawn]

shadowmaster: as a forum sith involved in development and yet not a dev, could you specify?

so waw: go ahead, make one and make a wiki page for it. That's all you can do to begin. Then it's up to the admins to add it as a link and whatever.

[Edward V Riley]

Yeah, waw, like SM said, there is a huge difference between newbs and n00bs. The former are interested in learning how to play the game, about becoming involved in the community, open and receptive to advice, and have a good attitude. The latter expect an easy learning curve, advice to be handed to them a minute after they ask(like skymaster), they tend to be obnoxious and have a bad attitude.

The former in a user-driven game like Wesnoth are a boon, exactly what we are looking for, and the type people don't mind helping.

The latter are a pain, and give all new players a bad name. They want to reap the benefits of everyone else's hard work and experience both playing the game and creating it without contributing their own effort or even getting involved.

Yes, I know what the differences are too. Good way of putting them Turuk. Me, I'm 36 and was, at one time, very well known around the Runescape forums for both my humor threads and ideas. Noobs would fill those forums with....for lack of a better word...crap...over and over again. I mean, they'd ignore the stickies there too and post the same threads over and over again. I'm talking "put horses in Runescape" ten times an hour. (Btw, I'm Shadowcran on that game). A newb would come in and post ONE thread they weren't meant to and would learn from the mistake and then become a productive member of the game.

***About horses on RS...For some reason, they don't want to or don't know how to code enough horses into Java script.

The difference here is that Wesnoth doesn't often attract the younger players, which is both a good and bad thing. Good in that most players here seem to learn pretty fast. Bad in that new blood means more players which might one day mean more notoriety for the game.

One thing I've noticed is that some threads are more informative and better written than others and more able to tackle a new player's question. How about Boldening the titles for these types? Most would, of course, be longtime players or Mod threads but this is at least a start. The thread needs to have some way to make it stand out from others. Perhaps a color system to show the importance of some threads over others? Just for the titles, of course.

Yes, Irrevenant is one of the more helpful moderators I've seen. He tends to also be THE PEACEMAKER in most disputes as he's quite good at it. He's also the one more likely to know the forums better than the rest, and be able to know exactly where to link you to a similar subject.

Another idea that I truly like and would dearly take full advantage of is a "chatroom" type way of communicating. This way we wouldn't have to wait for responses to our posts. This way we could truly meet and be more like a community. A "newb" could come in there, ask a question, and if anyone's there they could attempt to answer it. The newb wouldn't have to wait til someone responds to a thread. The rules for the chatroom could prohibit foul language and spam.