Centralising the FAQs (was New Idea for Newbs)

[Maeglin Dubh]

I'm not offended, because I did read the thread, and I've been a moderator here for over a year, and we have an enormous bold thread right here in the Ideas forum entitled ALL USERS READ THIS!

And you know what? Hardly anyone ever reads it first, or at all. I routinely have to lock threads bringing up things explicitly stated in that conveniently titled thread. So adding another FAQ to the forum doesn't sound like much of a panacea potion to me, right off the bat.

It's my experience that no matter what you do to try and make them, many, if not most, people do not read stickies, FAQs etc up joining a forum. For those who do, the current structure is perfectly adequate (like DDR, i managed fine), for those who do not, no structure will help, sadly.

His experience has, I feel, been largely proven through these and other forums.

Now, would you like to make this the Father of FAQ's? Complete with links to all the other FAQ's? Whatever you make it, where will you put it? How will you guarantee it be read?

From the sound of this....

Yeah, we're not saying there's really anything wrong with the present system, but having a place to point new players to in each forum that would have general useful information specific to the nature of that forum.

You want to add a new FAQ in each forum.

Also...

It seems enough users are for this, now we just gotta convince a mod to let us do it and then we have to design it. I'll see what I can do over the next few days.

... There's no convincing. You just do it. If one of us thinks it's worthwhile, it may get stickied. Otherwise, good effort all around, we'll save the link for future reference.

[Shadow]

First it should be made sure that the stickies get got read by new users
Add "nude chicks inside" in the thread title of the stickies and the views will explode.

For those who don't know me I'm just kidding, serious.

[Erk]

First it should be made sure that the stickies get got read by new users
Add "nude chicks inside" in the thread title of the stickies and the views will explode.

For those who don't know me I'm just kidding, serious.

Hey this is actually a good idea. Sticky it with the title "Elvish alternate NUDE sprites!"

[irrevenant]

I've been a moderator here for over a year, and we have an enormous bold thread right here in the Ideas forum entitled ALL USERS READ THIS!
And you know what? Hardly anyone ever reads it first, or at all. I routinely have to lock threads bringing up things explicitly stated in that conveniently titled thread. So adding another FAQ to the forum doesn't sound like much of a panacea potion to me, right off the bat.

IMO a big advantage of having a FAQ is that when you do lock that thread you can just point them at the FAQ instead of having to explain your lock every single time (or leaving a confused newbie in your wake).

The FPI doesn't stop newbies reposting old ideas in this forum. But it does allow us to resolve those threads more cleanly and get back to business. It's more convenient for us and the newbie.

And it's not just Mods - I often see forum regulars point newbies at the FPI too.

BTW, I think the OP made the suggestion in this forum because this is the forum for ideas, not because it should necessarily be hosted here.

Now, would you like to make this the Father of FAQ's? Complete with links to all the other FAQ's? Whatever you make it, where will you put it? How will you guarantee it be read?
Whatever you make it, where will you put it? How will you guarantee it be read?

Personally I'd like to see a "Father of FAQs". IMO part of the reason so few people read the FAQs is that there's so many that it's a bit overwhelming (the other part is that people are lazy). I think all those FAQs have their place, but a central starting point would be handy.

Personally, I'd put it in the Users Forum. I'd make sure it was read by pointing it out to anyone who seemed to need it.

From the sound of this....

Yeah, we're not saying there's really anything wrong with the present system, but having a place to point new players to in each forum that would have general useful information specific to the nature of that forum.

You want to add a new FAQ in each forum.

I just read that as meaning that, since the FAQ wouldn't be specific to any particular forum you would be able to point a user in any forum to it.

Certainly that's the way I would do it.

[tsr]

A bit OT, but somewhat relevant if the outcome of this thread becomes a mother-FAQ, can we please move all other FAQs to the wiki, the forum software doesn't lend itself to interlinking very well, since it (at least for me FF under linux) opens all links in new tabs.

EDIT: and maybe costumizing the default phpBB FAQ that shows when clicking the FAQ button above could be a good idea?

/tsr

[gabe]

the problem is people dont read FAQ's or anything else
point them at the resource they want or the big new FAQ they still wont read it
so what is the point all if the information is all ready there?
they still wont read it
when i first joined i asked plenty of stupid questions that the various wiki's and FAQ's had answers for
i started reading them and now have way less questions
this is especially true for wml and FPI related issues
there is no way to get people to read stuff
the best way of dealing with the problem is for people to be patient
point newer users to where they need to go
but also answer some of their questions
at first
if it continues then stop
to use an analogy it is like nursing a baby
they need quick answers from older/long time users at first
and that is ok
but as they age they should get cut off from the quick and easy source and be forced to read what is there for them
you got to wean the new guys
especially since many of the newer folks could be youngsters
the goal should be to encourage new comers not scare them off
more help should be given to the kids
but as they grow up make them learn how to read
if you think they are being lazy look at their post count
if it is low then help them but tell them where you got the information
if it is really high like turin's post count and they are asking what is wml? style questions then it should be ok to be firmer in telling them to read the forums and or wiki references and tell them nothing else

this is about helping people and nurturing development
when people start learning something new they typically need more help
it should be given as when they begin to get the basics they will desire to learn more and hopefully then start to read what is all ready there

having people be patient and understanding to this fact is far better of a strategy then a new forum section or sticky series

[waw]

Well that's just it Gabe...... people AREN'T being nice to the newbs. They aren't being patient. They are making foul posts that are being played off as comedic sarcasm in a good way... even when it is completely obvious the poster is trying to hurt the OP's feelings.. they just cover their bases JUST ENOUGH to slip through.

Now Maeglin... and any other doubters... you missed some clear points that makes this different than most other faqs. Perhaps in the discussion these points were lost so I have reiterated them here. And for the record, I don't think a regular FAQ will help or change anything. But if it meets THESE criteria... it can help.

1. The faq would need to be included in the registration. You hide a statement in it saying something like "The Answer is Yellowpudding". At the bottom of the screen, just like Terms of Service, there is a 'click if you have read this faq' and the registering using clicks that they have and continue. (Similar to I agree on terms of service). The next screen will actually ask them what the answer is. Now, yes, it is easy enough for somebody to skim through the faq and find the Answer, but they may also find something relating to their question. It would help them out. This is why I want a Moderator's support before it is started. If I know it WON'T be put anywhere useful and just stickied like another useless topic (Come on, don't be offended but there are a lot of sticky threads in all these forums... few have applied to me). If a moderator is willing to help and try to get it posted on the front page somehow... or in registering... then I can see trying to make this work. Otherwise, your right.. it won't bring anything new to the table.

2. Basics... It starts with THE BASICS. For example... as in the first post... What is a Sprite? It will explain and take you through all of and everything else on the way.

3. Father/Mother FAQ
At the end of the FAQ will be a list of all the other faqs in Wesnoth, whether on the Wiki or in the forums. It will describe those briefly and gladly send people on their way.

4. Updates
I couldn't ask, and couldn't myself, go through to all the questions asked on this site and put them in. But we CAN take those questions that are asked and answered after it gets put up. If the user BOB1 asks "What is the difference between a Faction and a race?" that question could get included in the FAQ, and the best answer that is posted could be included. It would be a growing faq.

5. If not in the registration, or better yet... even after the registration.. on the Index page of the BfWF, have a banner. It welcomes you (you guys don't know how nice it makes people feel ) and its says something like:

"Hi, welcome to Wesnoth. This forum is to see the improvement of Wesnoth and encourage users to work with their own ideas. If you are new and ready to start working on your own material, you may want to read THIS as a starter guide. Every question has been asked and answered, with a little research it can be found and those around you are ready and willing to help."

6. When somebody asks that question... you know the one I mean. Stupid... you've seen it 20 times (maybe even by the same user)... heck, the topic right before it was on the same thing... and you feel that sarcastic nature we all know and love just ready to hop on out and say HEY NEWBIE! YOU SUCK! And you do every thing you can just to ruin that kid's day... despite the fact that he is 9-12..... You could just post the link to the thread and say... "You have asked a good question, but its been asked many times. Read this and it will take care of your problem. Thanks."

7. When locking... a link to the faq WILL help people out more than just locking and reiterating yourself again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again... (Sorry)

I wouldn't say a brand new Faq in each forum though. Not every one needs it.. but each forum should/has a set of rules/guidelines directing the users on how to use it/what to post/what may be needed in that forum. It would contain a link to there.

If done right, it could be useful, but it doesn't just matter on the content. Placement will be a big issue. I don't really have all that much time today or tomorrow but I will take my original post, clean it up, and repost it as the updated part. If anybody has any contributions... please post them.



FOR CLARIFICATION I ADDED THE FOLLOWING EDIT:


And no, it isn't mean to be for this forum. It is meant to be for the site and for Wesnoth as a whole.

[gabe]

Well that's just it Gabe...... people AREN'T being nice to the newbs. They aren't being patient. They are making foul posts that are being played off as comedic sarcasm in a good way... even when it is completely obvious the poster is trying to hurt the OP's feelings.. they just cover their bases JUST ENOUGH to slip through.

um... ya... that was my point.

don't be a *inappropriate word* head to new users
they still wont read anything until they are ready
and when that happens they wont need the need FAQ or whatever
because they will have read what they should have in the first place

so to clarify

just be nice to new folks while they are new. when they aren't new any more then it is ok to be mean as then they are being lazy
[sarcasm]and at that point they deserve our sarcasm and anger[/sarcasm]

ps when is sarcasm going to be a forums tag option?

[Turuk]

Yeah, we're not saying there's really anything wrong with the present system, but having a place to point new players to in each forum that would have general useful information specific to the nature of that forum.

When I said the above, I apologize for not being clear as many people have commented on that. I didn't mean a new FAQ in each forum, but by having a Father/Mother of all FAQs like waw said, any question in any forum would be able to be directed to it. So people could be like oh, you have questions on WML, well look in the giant FAQ and it'll answer your questions. Have a question on art? Look there and it should help. And so on.

[Iris]

I am nice to the newbies, far beyond my patience, even though I'm no moderator. I sometimes wonder why I don't kick their butts in sight instead of talking to them friendly.

<--- I'd really appreciate someone to lower my post count. Why doesn't the automatic Offtopic forum cleanup lower it in my case?

First it should be made sure that the stickies get got read by new users
Add "nude chicks inside" in the thread title of the stickies and the views will explode.

For those who don't know me I'm just kidding, serious.

Hey this is actually a good idea. Sticky it with the title "Elvish alternate NUDE sprites!"

Seconded.

[waw]

Um... SM, how does that help? I do applaud you for being polite.... Everyone has a bursting point though. As somebody who helped me, and others, do you think giving a well thought out and thorough, easy to follow faq to a newbie when asking a common question will help?

[Iris]

In the form of a wiki link... perhaps. Something like "Forum guide for beginners".

You know, you are an exception; you learn fast and correctly. Most people have not that quality, and it's is not possible for us necromancers to modify people's minds, only to rise them from the dead.

BTW, IMO what we need is a newbie-friendly forum Sith. It's Thrawn, except that he's not quite active.

Obviously, there are some newbs that exceed the limits; the generic n00b.
Here is a good example:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17515

[waw]

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I have.. no idea what to say about that skymaster fellow... that... well...







Um, back on a sane note... If it does direct you to the wiki, then yes, I see the point. I figured in the forums it might be better manageable... can't the mods throw one topic inside another on this site? If somebody asks the same question, they could move/merge it into the faq...

[Maeglin Dubh]

can't the mods throw one topic inside another on this site? If somebody asks the same question, they could move/merge it into the faq...

No.

[Iris]

That is possible with wiki articles too. At least in the wiki I work, which runs MediaWiki software, you can merge (??), move and lock (except for sysops/mods) their contents so that only granted people could modify them.

On a side note, you missed the spam war craze of last June, which, under very strange circumstances, I found myself involucrated, by the side of the... spammers. (That's why I'd really like to lower my post-count to 100 or something!)

But something's true: some people never learn. Even thought this are minor cases, not so impressive as skymaster's, they are really interesting, specially the one that violated numerous times the GPL Licensing Policy for Wesnoth and Forums artwork:

- danny_california: link to his forum message list.
- Troy and co. had numerous Off Topic threads of spam. Now you can see what they are doing in their own forum. Fortunately, it's their own, so there's nobody to get sued for that spamming. See external link to their "intelligent discussion" subforum: http://fccg.wackyweasel.org/viewforum.php?f=3
- Sparta: ???

And other cases that get rid in sight. Some threads get deleted, and some not, and are locked, sunk into the dopefish sea.

And here, in contrast, you have smart newbs:

- waw: his first thread
- natepas08 (not a respectful case like the above, but...): his first thread
- and others which I forgot.

As you can see, we have 25% bad-attitude-newbs, and 75% (duh) good-attitude newbs. I don't see point in caring about the minority, 25% n00bs, but I guess I'd agree if it was my duty. I don't complain about that, I seem to have more patience than even I imagine.

Note to moderators: feel free to remove any inappropriate content from this thread post and crush my head with a wose's feet if you consider this list a personal attack/negative (or even positive) publicity to them.

Not that danny_california didn't do any good. He DID the forum a greater good, albeit in a rather INDIRECT way. Mr. Dubh and others know what I'm talking about and I won't mention any other word on that subject.