Source??

Lacotemale · Post by **Lacotemale** » August 30th, 2007, 7:05 pm

Why is Wesnoth being distributed as source on the website??

People new to Linux can't be expected to compile from source and I doubt they want the old version through their package manager.

How about distribute the game on the website as a .package file - http://www.autopackage.org .

Also provide this link http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/
so people know what to do... once they do it the first time its dead simple afterwards. Next time they download a .package file they just double click to install. Keep things simple, keep people happy!

MDG · Post by **MDG** » August 30th, 2007, 7:39 pm

What about people that aren't new to Linux?

Post by **Soliton** » August 30th, 2007, 7:47 pm

Lacotemale wrote:Why is Wesnoth being distributed as source on the website?? :roll:

An open source project distributing source code?! How stupid is that!

Wesnoth packages are done by volunteers not necessary part of the project. So just make an autopackage if you like and distribute it!

Post by **Iris** » August 31st, 2007, 12:30 pm

Lacotemale wrote:Why is Wesnoth being distributed as source on the website??
People new to Linux can't be expected to compile from source and I doubt they want the old version through their package manager. How about distribute the game on the website as a .package file - http://www.autopackage.org .

Also provide this link http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/
so people know what to do... once they do it the first time its dead simple afterwards. Next time they download a .package file they just double click to install. Keep things simple, keep people happy!

If someone maintains the autopackage package (redudant name?), as Soliton said above, we'd be glad to provide a link to it.

Also, don't forget that Ubuntu is the most popular distro for newbies nowadays, and that it's Debian packagemanagement system (APT) is very flexible, and with no doubt people who really care about what version of the game they are playing will keep up to date using it. I think the Debian packages come out shortly after every official (Source Code, btw) release.

Lacotemale · Post by **Lacotemale** » August 31st, 2007, 4:58 pm

@MDG: What are you saying?? That you enjoy compiling from source?

@soliton: The .package file wouldnt be instead of the source code, pea brain.

@Shadow Master: I can't see a .deb file anywhere on your website, except info on getting the old version through the repos and I know debian is the most popular but if a player with slow dial up internet (28kbps) just wants to try some wesnoth campaigns then this is what happens:

Fedora user: Hey I tried out this game and its really cool. I can give it to you if you want to see for yourself.

Ubuntu user(clicks on the rpm): Em I dont know whats wrong.... the game didnt install for some reason.

Autopackage solves this problem, downloading the .deb file would take ages on his dial up connection. So only autopackage is downloaded and the .package file is easily installed. The distros in this example could be anything as autopackage will work for any distro.

Post by **Iris** » August 31st, 2007, 5:07 pm

Lacotemale wrote:@MDG: What are you saying?? That you enjoy compiling from source?

I answer for him/her: Yes, I do like that.

Even provides some processor specific optimizations that precompiled packages don't - and should NOT - provide.

Lacotemale wrote:@soliton: The .package file wouldnt be instead of the source code, pea brain.

In my country, that kind of references to people are deemed offensive, btw.

Lacotemale wrote:@Shadow Master: I can't see a .deb file anywhere on your website, except info on getting the old versiohttp://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17665n through the repos and I know debian is the most popular but if a player with slow dial up internet (28kbps) just wants to try some wesnoth campaigns then this is what happens:

Oh, forgive me. I use openSUSE 10.2, and I don't like installing apps via any package management software. I just build from source code.

Lacotemale wrote:Fedora user: Hey I tried out this game and its really cool. I can give it to you if you want to see for yourself.

Ubuntu user(clicks on the rpm): Em I dont know whats wrong.... the game didnt install for some reason.

Autopackage solves this problem, downloading the .deb file would take ages on his dial up connection. So only autopackage is downloaded and the .package file is easily installed. The distros in this example could be anything as autopackage will work for any distro.

Source code also compiles in any distro provided you have the dependences installed, which you should always have.

Don't take it so strongly; peace, as I said before, we are open to any packaging suggestions, other than removing the source code download, of course.

Myr · Post by **Myr** » August 31st, 2007, 5:28 pm

Enjoy compiling programs? That would be me, as well. Why? Because I can get rid of options I don't want, and compile things I _do_ want. I can even tell it all the directories I want, for example, I can have every last version of Wesnoth compiled, and all run independent of one another. Do it in Windows, see what kind of mess you make.

If you don't like open-source projects or they way they work, go buy a game off the shelf. Simple as that.

People new to Linux can't be expected to compile from the source? Probably not, but they CAN be expected to learn how.

Do you have any idea how simple it is? You are running what distro? If it's Ubuntu, its very easy to build. Just use the command 'sudo apt-get build-dep wesnoth' to install all dev packages and whatnot, then ./configure, make, and make install will give no errors.

Post by **torangan** » August 31st, 2007, 5:37 pm

It's very simple. The official release is the source code. Only the source code. There are many ways of packaging for Linux distributions and if you want to see packages in your favorite format provide them or find someone to do it. We'll host them but if they're not provided so far then there simply in no volunteer for this job.

Lacotemale · Post by **Lacotemale** » August 31st, 2007, 6:00 pm

I just build from source code.

Do you have any idea how simple it is? You are running what distro? If it's Ubuntu, its very easy to build. Just use the command 'sudo apt-get build-dep wesnoth' to install all dev packages and whatnot, then ./configure, make, and make install will give no errors.

Just to let ye know this is for the benifit of people new to Linux, people who run scared if they don't see a GUI in front of them, so that means they won't touch the command line - even with a 10 meter pole!

New users will expect a simple "double click to install software",
not a "you must learn how to compile from source and then compile from source to install your software."

I will look into the process of creating a .package file further and see how easy/hard it is.

Post by **Iris** » August 31st, 2007, 6:07 pm

Lacotemale wrote:Just to let ye know this is for the benifit of people new to Linux, people who run scared if they don't see a GUI in front of them, so that means they won't touch the command line - even with a 10 meter pole!

New users will expect a simple "double click to install software",
not a "you must learn how to compile from source and then compile from source to install your software."

Blame Microsoft and their Windows craze. Ah, the good old days of DOS... I learned how to use a computer using MS-DOS 4, when I was 7 years old! I guess that's what qualified me as a non-newbie novice Linux user when I was trying it back in 2005.

Also, for some strange reason, autopackages don't work so easily for me. I usually do have to use the good olde' terminal for installing them, that's why I avoid them; this is easier:

Code: Select all

tar -jxvf wesnoth-1.3.7.tar.bz2 && cd ./wesnoth-1.3.7 && ./configure --enable-editor --enable-tools && make && su -c "make install"

It even gives me time for a coffee break, while it builds. And my old benchmarks indicates that software compiled by me in my computer is faster than precompiled packages.

Anyway, this is my argument in favour of we, the source code crafters. You can speak for the newbies, and you'll be truly considered a hero in the future. However, I don't consider that GNU/Linux is for people with that GUI obsession. They just won't survive if they are not willing to learn something new, like kids in school that give up.

This is my opinion. Feel free to disregard it, as I'm a mini software developer (not in Wesnoth's staff anyway) that considers this argument completely valid, against this kind of Windows-ish mechanisms. Also, consider that I'm studying physics, where Windows is banned, and only UNIX or GNU systems allowed.

MDG · Post by **MDG** » August 31st, 2007, 6:37 pm

@Lacotemale: Why don't you just switch to a Microsoft operating system and use the binaries available for Windows?

Post by **torangan** » August 31st, 2007, 9:07 pm

The problem is only relevant for the impatient. All large distributions I know of do have Wesnoth in their official repositories so it's available through their installers after some time. This includes all those flashy graphical installers some distributions provide.
If you want to live on the bleeding edge using the latest versions you'll have to do some work yourself. The only version working everywhere (with some dependencies) is the source and it is provided. Or you can look at all those packages which are linked to at the download page. Maybe there's what you need in there.
Not to forget that Debian packages are usually present a few hours after the release and they do also work on the derivates (Ubuntu and friends) if people know a little bit about their installers. Whereby I personally feel that about 80% of complaints are from clueless Ubuntu users and tend to ignore questions once I read Ubuntu. It's too tiring to see always the same questions documented at many places asked...

Weeksy · Post by **Weeksy** » August 31st, 2007, 9:17 pm

there's a nice easy way to convert .rpm in to .deb, isn't there? something called alien? Works somewhat well, doesn't it? Granted, I haven't used it, but I've heard good things about it...

Post by **Iris** » August 31st, 2007, 9:23 pm

Weeksy wrote:there's a nice easy way to convert .rpm in to .deb, isn't there? something called alien? Works somewhat well, doesn't it? Granted, I haven't used it, but I've heard good things about it...

Me too, and I think it's pretty much the solution for these guys.

I'd consider this thread soft-locked if I had the authority to do that. Oh well, just stop this flamebait and get back to talk about providing an autopackage for cluel... newbie Linux users/distros. I think any other reply to the flamebait would deserve a lock.

Lacotemale · Post by **Lacotemale** » September 1st, 2007, 4:24 pm

@MDG: Well I don't need to go back to Windows, in case you haven't noticed I am trying to make things easier for people new to Linux.
---
I know Alien may be the soluction but the average non-technical joe does not know about such things.

Linux adoption will grow at snails pace unless the average joe can do things with ease on it.

I will get back to ye if I make progress with creating an autopackage, in the meantime I have to read the 44 page manual on how to create one.

The Battle for Wesnoth Forums

Source??

Source??

Re: Source??

Re: Source??