Why oh Why did I level up Lancers?

[Firense]

You guys are looking at this from the wrong perspective (or maybe I do, but mine makes some sense )

I usually compare Lancers to Knights, as they are both level 2. I think its obvious that Lancers are the stronger of the two, although they cant level further, making them not very viable in campaigns.
The same is about the comparison between the Revenant and the Deathblade. The Deathblade deals more damage, but cant get to level 3. The Revenant on the other hand can get to level 3 (Draug, and in 1.3 also Death Knight), yet nobody every complains about this.
The choice I usually make, depending on levelling:
Campaigns: Always the one with the possibility to advance another level (exception on Great Mage/Silver Mage)
Random Scenario/MP: What do I need more? What are the chances to reach level 3? (very slim with charge attack) If I don't get to level 3 whats the better choice? Thats obviously the Lancer.
So in MP, I almost always take the Lancer, how big is the chance to get enough exp. for your Knight to become a Grand Knight/Paladin anyway? In campaigns, I always take Knights no matter what, as I dont feel I waste experience when I make a kill with them.

[multilis]

think its obvious that Lancers are the stronger of the two

I disagree. IMO, either can be stronger depending on your needs, similar to ulfserker verses dwarven fighter.

Lancer is the best king/ranged unit killer in most situations and faster. But knight with 2 different types of attacks is best against skels, wose and other units that resist pierce or in cases where you don't want to charge (you would rather attack with multiple units or enemy is almost dead already), and knight is better at filling in holes in your defensive wall. Lancer is a specialist, knight is more jack of all trades.

[Firense]

I disagree. IMO, either can be stronger depending on your needs, similar to ulfserker verses dwarven fighter.

This is a very wrong conclusion:
1: Knight and Lancer come from the same unit, the Horseman
2: Knight and Lancer both have a Charge attack, one with 14-2, other 12-3 (correct me if wrong)
3: There is no comparison whatsoever between a Dwarvish Fighter and an Ulfserker, they dont belong to the same tree, one has a Berserk attack, the other a simple Blade and Impact attack. Comparing those two is like comparing a Wose to an Elvish Fighter or something

[Velensk]

What he meant was that ulfs are specialists and better for certain things while fighters are staples and are better in general.

[KingofNoobia]

Lancers are the best choice for strong horsemen. Normally the 2 strikes of horsemen, knights, grand knights and paladins give 2 extra damage in defence, and 4 in attack due to the 'charge' ability. (Grand) Knights get 4 extra damage with their sword and Paladins 5, but the lancer gets 3 in defence, but 6 in attack, and that is awesome for a lvl 2 unit, making their damage of 12-3 to 13-3 , and with charge is that 26-3 = maximum 78 damage (normally 24-3, max = 72 dmg). A grand knight has a 17-2 charge attack = 34-2 max = 68. When Strong that is 18-2, 36-2 when attacking, max = 72dmg.

A level 2 lancer has 4 more charge attack than a LEVEL 3 Grand Knight (And it requires 120 xp to levelup a knight!!), and the same charge as a strong grand knight. A strong lancer has 10 more charge damage than a normal grand knight, and 6 more damage than a strong grand knight.

Of course a (grand) knight has more hitpoints and armor than a lancer, but a lancer has higher movement speed, making him able to flee from almost all units (except Elvish Outrider and Gryphons), and thus giving him a sort of defense in another way. He has no sword attack, making him useless against skeleton warriors, but he is an unstoppable devastation against drakes (their poor 30% defense on plains gives the lancer a good chance to hit 3 attacks, + the +10% damage against most drake units). His hit-and-run ability allows him to strike when he prefers to. He can retreat quickly during the night and return to devastate his enemies during the day.

I'd say i would make the bulk of my horsemen into lancers when fighting a MP game, but in a campaign, it might be a good idea to use both of them. I'd say: make strong horsemen into Lancers and Intelligent ones into Knights.

[Elvish_Pillager]

but he is an unstoppable devastation against drakes

...until he misses a couple attacks and get eviscerated in one round.

Lancers have much less long-term usefulness than Knights in a campaign.

[Firense]

Hes speaking about MP now, where the chance you get a Knight a level up is.... very slim, if it gets unlucky once and misses both charge attacks and all retaliation attacks hit hes dead.
I agree, on the long run he stinks, but MP has no long runs

[Sandermatt]

And what if you play issar's cross, the speed is useless then. Only on big maps it is really an advantage.

[Elvish_Pillager]

Hes speaking about MP now, where the chance you get a Knight a level up is.... very slim, if it gets unlucky once and misses both charge attacks and all retaliation attacks hit hes dead.

Knights have more HP (resiliency against a lucky counterattack) and are more frontloaded (more likely to be able to kill on swing 1 or 2 and avoid damage entirely). Plus, you're often better off just swinging the sword, which is as powerful as that of an equivalent front-line fighter unit.

[Weeksy]

Sander, if you're playing Isar's cross you're on your own. It isn't balanced. The map devs know this. It's the only way a 2v2 can be quick, and it's the best it's going to get, but you can't say things aren't good for isar's and use that as a full example.

[Sandermatt]

But also the small 1v1 maps are so small that the higher speed sin't a that big advantage.

[Weeksy]

It still is an advantage, and you can make use of it. A quick footpad just makes my day, because it's another gryphon I won't have to recruit, especially on 1v1s...

[Sandermatt]

It might be and advantage, I didn't say on 1v1 maps it sin't an advantage, but it isn't a that big advantage to be better then the higher HP's and the sword which a knight has.

[Clonkinator]

It still is an advantage, and you can make use of it. A quick footpad just makes my day, because it's another gryphon I won't have to recruit, especially on 1v1s...

lol, so your footpad can suddenly fly if it gets the 'quick'-trait?

[Weeksy]

quick footpads can't fly, but they have a good 8 mp, and better move over water than most units, and as water is one of the most commonly used terrains for blocking stuff off when playing v. knalgans (mountains won't help you too much if you want to stay away from that ulf ) you can sneak in for good backstabbing damage.