Old Maps, New Maps, Map Names and Map Flames

[Doc Paterson]

Bitter Creek

Made me chuckle.

Yeah keep brainstorming. I'm not sure exactly how this will all end up, but it couldn't hurt to have a few candidates.

[Dave]

This is a good idea in some ways, but I think the main issue here is that the current, balanced versions of these two maps (Charge and Blitz) are literally nothing like the originals, that they have become completely unique entities that are no more similar to those originals than most any other randomly selected usermade map. Everything has been reworked: the fronts have been cleaned up, the heavy terrain patches have been plugged, the entire aesthetic of the map has been remade, the dimensions have changed, the economic plan has been wiped away and recreated, most villages have been removed, and those that remain have been moved, to say nothing of the fact that the insurmountable P1 advantage has been done away with.

Thank you for so eloquently illustrating why we use the GPL. So that the rug cannot be pulled from under us.

If the MP community has put this much effort into the maps, I am not going to demand they be removed. We are perfectly within our rights to keep them.

[Weeksy]

I have a serious feeling that if you removed them, a 'charge & blitz' addon would pop up on the campaign server in less than three days, and it would become quite a popular download. Taking away what is so popular could be just asking for troubles.

[Noy]

Its not just charge and blitz. Clash, and Castle Hopping Isle would also have to be removed. Pretty well the most popular MP 1v1 maps, and probably the best 2v2 map (IMO at least) would be taken off the game, and 2 years of map balancing work would go down the tubes.

[Dragonking]

This is a good idea in some ways, but I think the main issue here is that the current, balanced versions of these two maps (Charge and Blitz) are literally nothing like the originals, that they have become completely unique entities that are no more similar to those originals than most any other randomly selected usermade map. Everything has been reworked: the fronts have been cleaned up, the heavy terrain patches have been plugged, the entire aesthetic of the map has been remade, the dimensions have changed, the economic plan has been wiped away and recreated, most villages have been removed, and those that remain have been moved, to say nothing of the fact that the insurmountable P1 advantage has been done away with.

Thank you for so eloquently illustrating why we use the GPL. So that the rug cannot be pulled from under us.

If the MP community has put this much effort into the maps, I am not going to demand they be removed. We are perfectly within our rights to keep them.

Its not just charge and blitz. Clash, and Castle Hopping Isle would also have to be removed. Pretty well the most popular MP 1v1 maps, and probably the best 2v2 map (IMO at least) would be taken off the game, and 2 years of map balancing work would go down the tubes.

I'd keep them in but under a different name. Because name is the only thing that connects "old" pg's maps with "modern" ones.

[Doc Paterson]

Its not just charge and blitz. Clash, and Castle Hopping Isle would also have to be removed. Pretty well the most popular MP 1v1 maps, and probably the best 2v2 map (IMO at least) would be taken off the game, and 2 years of map balancing work would go down the tubes.

Not that it matters much, but as a point of interest- According to the last 200 game tally that I did, Blitz was the most played 1v1, but Charge was only the third most popular, losing to Den of Onis and defeating Caves of the Basilisk (#4) by a very small margin. I've not done one of these tallies in some time, but I get the impression that Hamlets has cracked the top four.

At any rate, I think that this issue has been resolved, and that we should move on to the renaming of these two maps.

Anyone who'd like to assist in the naming process should post up some ideas. I'll likely just rename them myself, but if anyone's idea really strikes me, I'll use it.

[joshudson]

Clash was good then. Clash is good now. I would sooner revert to pg's version than remove it.

[Tony Almeida]

Clash was good then. Clash is good now. I would sooner revert to pg's version than remove it.

Have you even seen the original version?



Do take a look....


Did someone order mountains?

[Croc Paterson]

Joshudson- This is irrelevant anyway- You should read the posts in this thread. It's not being removed.

[pg]

I assume that's Doc Paterson trolling under aliases. Maybe the rest of the developers can rise to his example. While he might do good work for Wesnoth I really think he could act more professional. One of the reasons I quit Wesnoth development was because I'd have to deal with him.

I've been busy with a new job so I forget about this thread for a bit. Anyhow, I don't care much anymore to have my maps removed. I was mad when I asked for that, and I still am mad over this, but less now. I just assumed when I submitted work to Wesnoth I would continue to be involved in that said work. I didn't realize to do so I'd have to build a political base among Wesnoth developers or become a forum warrior. All I wanted to do was make fun maps, I was never interested in ego battles or pretending to know the holy writ of balance.

[MDG]

pg, it occurs to me that the GPL works in your favour as well. Why not continue to work on the maps? Variety is the spice of life. Make the changes you want to then post them up in the forum and/or add-on server. You can certainly continue to create new maps as well. I.e. the old adage; "Don't get mad, don't get even, get on with it...".

(Regards professionalism, you started off with some fairly unpleasant and legally incorrect accusations of theft, etc... You're not exactly setting the tone that you're asking others to adopt here...)

[Noy]

I assume that's Doc Paterson trolling under aliases. Maybe the rest of the developers can rise to his example. While he might do good work for Wesnoth I really think he could act more professional. One of the reasons I quit Wesnoth development was because I'd have to deal with him.

I've been busy with a new job so I forget about this thread for a bit. Anyhow, I don't care much anymore to have my maps removed. I was mad when I asked for that, and I still am mad over this, but less now. I just assumed when I submitted work to Wesnoth I would continue to be involved in that said work. I didn't realize to do so I'd have to build a political base among Wesnoth developers or become a forum warrior. All I wanted to do was make fun maps, I was never interested in ego battles or pretending to know the holy writ of balance.

So its fun if I go dwarves I win all the time? Please.

I've been here almost as long as you have pg, and pining for the good ole days is something I don't really do. You can ridicule multiplayer map/unit balance all you want, but its the reason why mp has grown to the size it has. Was it really fun way back in 9.1 when if you only recruited saurian skirmishers it was a sure win? or in 8.2 when Ulfs were invincible? Or if you played blitz prior to 9.5 that you could win either with mostly gryphons or drakes? I didn't find that fun, and neither did anybody else.I ask you this, put the new clash beside the old one, which one do you think people are going to find more fun?

And don't kid yourself, this isn't about politics in the least. It wouldn't have mattered if your name was pg, zookeeper or isaac, it would not have been removed in any case. You submitted under GPL, and the maps themselves have been changed significantly since then. More work has been done on the maps than you put in when you created them... you can't expect us now to remove it, particularly when it was under GPL.

[Shadow]

pg I can't exactly understand your setiments.
Some of my art was fine for the version I did it. Same goes for Jetryl Neo, Fmunoz and various others. It doesn't mean everyone was happy about it but in the end the stuff got better.

If you don't concur fine I could also start a pissing contest about the stuff I dislike but that wouldn't help anyone.
Actual nothing stops you from working on this or new stuff again.

[wayfarer]

I strongly concur with your setiment about double accounts.

They are made by the devil.

[MDG]

I strongly concur with your setiment about double accounts.

They are made by the devil.

Rotflmao