Critical hits.
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Critical hits.
Hello good people. 
Why not have a chance to do a critical damage to your enemy?
It should make the battles more emotives.
And maybe adding an ability that increases this critical-hit chance.
Displaying the critical-hit damage in Yellow and a little bigger than normal ones.. Something like that.
Could it be put into mainline or it goes off the KISS principle?
Hugs,
Peace.
Why not have a chance to do a critical damage to your enemy?
It should make the battles more emotives.
And maybe adding an ability that increases this critical-hit chance.
Displaying the critical-hit damage in Yellow and a little bigger than normal ones.. Something like that.
Could it be put into mainline or it goes off the KISS principle?
Hugs,
Peace.
Re: Critical hits.
I can say with quite a lot of certainty that this will never happen in mainline, regardless of whether it goes off the KISS principle or not.hunz wrote:Could it be put into mainline or it goes off the KISS principle?
I'd suggest you do a search on "critical hit" (on the ideas forum) and check some older threads on the subject.
-
wsultzbach
- Posts: 245
- Joined: November 28th, 2006, 12:42 am
gee, look at what I found...http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... tical+hits
EDIT: yet another...http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... tical+hits
EDIT: I think this is a good idea for spacenoth, but not wesnoth.
EDIT: yet another...http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... tical+hits
EDIT: I think this is a good idea for spacenoth, but not wesnoth.
-- xtifrI think one of the main reasons why this would not be implimented is that people already complain about the RNG and how the game is too random and such. At least as it is you can calculate wether or not it is possible for a certain unit to be killed or not without having to worry about random crittical shots. This would be a random effect that the players could have absolutely no effect to it, I.E. for basic combat roles players can help or hinder by being on good terrain, or using magic and other such things.
I guess from your avatar that you play Final Fantasy Tactics, where (from my limited experiance) accualy hitting your enemy occurs much more often than not, and in order to do more damage than you expected you would have to have a mechanic that dose that (like critical hits) where as in wesnoth just hitting can be effectivly the same thing. If you have a spearman attacking a unit on a 50% terrain and he hits all three times you might as well have had a crittical hit, and in this way the likely hood of it happening is directly poportinal to the situation caused by the skill of the two players playing. As far as I know all effects in final fantasy are hit or miss with no middle ground this dose not apply for Wesnoth where individual engagments are very much at the will of the dice.
I guess from your avatar that you play Final Fantasy Tactics, where (from my limited experiance) accualy hitting your enemy occurs much more often than not, and in order to do more damage than you expected you would have to have a mechanic that dose that (like critical hits) where as in wesnoth just hitting can be effectivly the same thing. If you have a spearman attacking a unit on a 50% terrain and he hits all three times you might as well have had a crittical hit, and in this way the likely hood of it happening is directly poportinal to the situation caused by the skill of the two players playing. As far as I know all effects in final fantasy are hit or miss with no middle ground this dose not apply for Wesnoth where individual engagments are very much at the will of the dice.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
-
Viliam
- Translator
- Posts: 1341
- Joined: January 30th, 2004, 11:07 am
- Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
- Contact:
The critical hits just make the fight more random. Now, more random is not a problem per se... it's just now too late. The game is generally ready, stable, tested, balanced... and many people (especially the developers) like it the way it is. Changing the randomness would completely throw away all the balance, and require change in strategy.
Some people would consider such change better, some worse, some would not care... I think generally the new version would not be better or worse, just different. So why put much work to make something which is not better?
However, it could be possible to implement critical hits as weapon specials, for custom units. Something like adding to tag "[attack]" a subtag "[critical]" with attributes "damage" and "probability". Then authors could make some units and scenarios with critical hits, so players can test it.
It is OK if someone would make a new campaign using critical hits, that is, using more randomness. We just would not like to switch the existing content to more randomness, because we like it as it is now.
Some people would consider such change better, some worse, some would not care... I think generally the new version would not be better or worse, just different. So why put much work to make something which is not better?
However, it could be possible to implement critical hits as weapon specials, for custom units. Something like adding to tag "[attack]" a subtag "[critical]" with attributes "damage" and "probability". Then authors could make some units and scenarios with critical hits, so players can test it.
It is OK if someone would make a new campaign using critical hits, that is, using more randomness. We just would not like to switch the existing content to more randomness, because we like it as it is now.
-
Viliam
- Translator
- Posts: 1341
- Joined: January 30th, 2004, 11:07 am
- Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
- Contact:
Oh, I should have read Velensk's reply more carefully. He got it right.
When I attack with a "5-4" unit, depending on luck I will cause 0 or 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 points of damage. So it is 10 in average, but 20 sometimes. Would critical hits make a significant difference to this? Now I do not want to make a statistical analysis, but imagine the following units:
a) 4 attacks, each has 50% to give 0 damage, 50% to give 5 damage
b) 4 attacks, each has 50% to give 0 damage, 40% to give 4 damage, 10% to give 8 damage
The probability curves of total damage would be very similar. The result would be significantly different only when 3 of 4 damages will do the critical hit... which is like 1:250 chance... frustratingly rarely if I wait for my units to hit... and bringing an instant "no! this was a very unfair bad luck" and loading a saved game if the enemy unit does this.
The more powerful version of critical hits would be if the unit's chance to do the critical hit is decided before the combat, and then is applied to all unit's strikes in this fight... like making the 4-4 unit temporarily become a 8-4 unit (or maybe a 6-6 unit, because if the decision is done before combat, it is no problem to increase the number of attacks too). This would increase the probability of the whole round being significantly different. Maybe it would have a bigger emotional impact, because if you see that the first strike did a critical damage, then you know that the unit will use its advantage in the following hits too. (So this is not only emotion related to "what happened" but also to "what will almost surely happen now again".) If someone will implement critical hits, I would prefer it this way.
When I attack with a "5-4" unit, depending on luck I will cause 0 or 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 points of damage. So it is 10 in average, but 20 sometimes. Would critical hits make a significant difference to this? Now I do not want to make a statistical analysis, but imagine the following units:
a) 4 attacks, each has 50% to give 0 damage, 50% to give 5 damage
b) 4 attacks, each has 50% to give 0 damage, 40% to give 4 damage, 10% to give 8 damage
The probability curves of total damage would be very similar. The result would be significantly different only when 3 of 4 damages will do the critical hit... which is like 1:250 chance... frustratingly rarely if I wait for my units to hit... and bringing an instant "no! this was a very unfair bad luck" and loading a saved game if the enemy unit does this.
The more powerful version of critical hits would be if the unit's chance to do the critical hit is decided before the combat, and then is applied to all unit's strikes in this fight... like making the 4-4 unit temporarily become a 8-4 unit (or maybe a 6-6 unit, because if the decision is done before combat, it is no problem to increase the number of attacks too). This would increase the probability of the whole round being significantly different. Maybe it would have a bigger emotional impact, because if you see that the first strike did a critical damage, then you know that the unit will use its advantage in the following hits too. (So this is not only emotion related to "what happened" but also to "what will almost surely happen now again".) If someone will implement critical hits, I would prefer it this way.
-
CaptainChaos
- Posts: 10
- Joined: March 2nd, 2007, 9:15 am
- Location: Bavaria
I would prefer critical hits rather this way, that the propability for one should be coupled to the defences of the unit.
So, this means both aproaches. Let's say the targeted unit has 70% of defence, then:
1: if you decide before the fight wether critical damage is turned on or not, then it should be 30% towards critical damage and 70% against it. This would square the cances for critical strike (which would on the other hand mean, making units on bad terrain even more vulnerable)
2: if you decide for every blow, then it could be made the same way. First you see if you deal a hit, and then with the same probability, if it does critical damage, which should in no case be instant kill (just double damage).
Furthermore, i would suggest, that for example only the 4th (and of course all subsequent ones) unit in one turn attacking the same unit should get critical strike. That would only make very exposed units more vulnerable. Or improve the type of attack, when you send in lots of small units to die, vs. a lvl 3 unit for example, and this way the attacking positions are freed again (as the computer does sometimes).
I also would compare this aspect to the thought that units, when they are attacked often, can more likely be cought unaware, since they have to spread their attention on many oponents.
But just a suggestion...
So, this means both aproaches. Let's say the targeted unit has 70% of defence, then:
1: if you decide before the fight wether critical damage is turned on or not, then it should be 30% towards critical damage and 70% against it. This would square the cances for critical strike (which would on the other hand mean, making units on bad terrain even more vulnerable)
2: if you decide for every blow, then it could be made the same way. First you see if you deal a hit, and then with the same probability, if it does critical damage, which should in no case be instant kill (just double damage).
Furthermore, i would suggest, that for example only the 4th (and of course all subsequent ones) unit in one turn attacking the same unit should get critical strike. That would only make very exposed units more vulnerable. Or improve the type of attack, when you send in lots of small units to die, vs. a lvl 3 unit for example, and this way the attacking positions are freed again (as the computer does sometimes).
I also would compare this aspect to the thought that units, when they are attacked often, can more likely be cought unaware, since they have to spread their attention on many oponents.
But just a suggestion...