Extended Era revived - version 36
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Balancing changes? Well I'm still amateur to the world of wesnoth, but not to balancing games and I can see perfectly that there is an imbalance in the era that affects mostly Drakes/undead/loyalists.
Basically, by adding units for the sake of it without previous good understanding of a faction makes it hard to maintain the balance of it paired with the rest, add also that the unit stats could be higher than expected and you soon broke the previous balance.
As a good example I saw while testing the era is that the Kalgan alliance is obsolete since half is on the dwarf side and the other half on the outlaws (a very logic thing anyway when you add enough units to have a full race faction) still I don't know why add the gyrocopter when you can use the gryphon rider (a dwarf) as the aereal unit.
Other unbalance is from the Aragwaith side they have two nice and strong scouts (the bird with its crushing) and the unicorn to grab villages and aren't useless for later game.
Add that they have an unit the Aragwaith spearman that costs 15 it does 11-2 (neutral) that its the strongest the orc does at night (favored time) with a good movement and as plus the first strike to boot.
While testing against the nagas I was building I found that this faction was too fast to be able to compete with them, even in a match with good amount of water zones (tought in random maps, no something like blitz in which I could destroy them easily) for the difference in movement.
But it still need more testing tought I consider them "top tier" from the factions on extended era.
Basically, by adding units for the sake of it without previous good understanding of a faction makes it hard to maintain the balance of it paired with the rest, add also that the unit stats could be higher than expected and you soon broke the previous balance.
As a good example I saw while testing the era is that the Kalgan alliance is obsolete since half is on the dwarf side and the other half on the outlaws (a very logic thing anyway when you add enough units to have a full race faction) still I don't know why add the gyrocopter when you can use the gryphon rider (a dwarf) as the aereal unit.
Other unbalance is from the Aragwaith side they have two nice and strong scouts (the bird with its crushing) and the unicorn to grab villages and aren't useless for later game.
Add that they have an unit the Aragwaith spearman that costs 15 it does 11-2 (neutral) that its the strongest the orc does at night (favored time) with a good movement and as plus the first strike to boot.
While testing against the nagas I was building I found that this faction was too fast to be able to compete with them, even in a match with good amount of water zones (tought in random maps, no something like blitz in which I could destroy them easily) for the difference in movement.
But it still need more testing tought I consider them "top tier" from the factions on extended era.
"Mysteries are revealed in the light of reason."
The aragwaith are anything but overpowered... they have such low hp they die rather easily... Their damage is high as a(supposed) compensation for this, but I don't think it makes up... Giving the eagle regen (they are magic eagles) would help a bit, and perhaps toning down either the spearman or the rider would be nice
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Temuchin Khan
- Posts: 1845
- Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 6:35 pm
- Location: Player 6 on the original Agaia map
Personally, I don't think the Eagle Riders need regeneration. That, I think, would make them overpowered.Weeksy wrote:The aragwaith are anything but overpowered... they have such low hp they die rather easily... Their damage is high as a(supposed) compensation for this, but I don't think it makes up... Giving the eagle regen (they are magic eagles) would help a bit, and perhaps toning down either the spearman or the rider would be nice
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Temuchin Khan
- Posts: 1845
- Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 6:35 pm
- Location: Player 6 on the original Agaia map
Honestly, no.Weeksy wrote:do you have a better idea to make the Aragwaith some unit that will let them hold their ground or at least let them have time to escape?
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The spearman and swordsman seem to hold ground just fine, imo. The swordsman gets 20% blade resist. Sure, they have slightly lower hp, but they're still neutral.
I've always heard that this is one of their characteristics. low hp and fragility.
If that's the case, then the player must adapt around this weakness. Learn to withdraw from villages more often, rather than trying to hold all villages.
I've always heard that this is one of their characteristics. low hp and fragility.
If that's the case, then the player must adapt around this weakness. Learn to withdraw from villages more often, rather than trying to hold all villages.
I've heard a few players muttering about how the Aragwaith, despite their theme of being fragile, yet having massive damage, do not have everything a faction takes to survive a match. The Aragwaith have a very interesting playing style, as their scout is the unit with the best resists... Its 8 moves plus the fairly good Aragwaith movetype provide cover wherever it is needed, but its inherent pierce weakness, from being a cavalry unit, combined with the fairly low defences it has for the same reason, wind up making it just as frail as any aragwaith unit- Cunning, no?
The thing is, though, that the low hp of the Aragwaith mean that once a scout gets hit by a ranged unit, you are getting hammered bad... I've been thinking it would be a good synergy if the Aragwaith spearman had some pierce (and possibly blade) resistance, as he has a big shield... it would mean that he could protect the scouts, while the scouts protected the mages, while the mages healed the spearmen, etc... The Aragwaith would still be about as frail, you just would have to use slightly different damage types against spearmen. As pierce damage is the primary ranged damage, it means that more attacks on the spearmen would face the choice of not dealing much damage, or exposing their weak points to the Aragwaith's massive damage :D ...
The other place you could choose to place the pierce resistance would be on the eagle riders with their high defenses. This could perhaps be accompanied by an impact resistance similar to the gryphon's, but if it were, I'd give the spearman some impact resist as opposed to blade resist... nothing more than 20% for any of them, thus keeping the scout (with its blade and impact resists) as the primary cover for the faction. If the eagle rider was given the impact weakness, I might consider lowering its cost to 20 gold, as this faction definitely needs its units to be taken as cheaper than most, due to how often their frailty will cause them to die...
The other option I can see would be to add the healthy trait to the faction, but I am a bit worried that this would put too much emphasis on those units that got the trait. Low hp units that heal fast would be an interesting thing to see, but I'm not sure this is the faction for them.
The thing is, though, that the low hp of the Aragwaith mean that once a scout gets hit by a ranged unit, you are getting hammered bad... I've been thinking it would be a good synergy if the Aragwaith spearman had some pierce (and possibly blade) resistance, as he has a big shield... it would mean that he could protect the scouts, while the scouts protected the mages, while the mages healed the spearmen, etc... The Aragwaith would still be about as frail, you just would have to use slightly different damage types against spearmen. As pierce damage is the primary ranged damage, it means that more attacks on the spearmen would face the choice of not dealing much damage, or exposing their weak points to the Aragwaith's massive damage :D ...
The other place you could choose to place the pierce resistance would be on the eagle riders with their high defenses. This could perhaps be accompanied by an impact resistance similar to the gryphon's, but if it were, I'd give the spearman some impact resist as opposed to blade resist... nothing more than 20% for any of them, thus keeping the scout (with its blade and impact resists) as the primary cover for the faction. If the eagle rider was given the impact weakness, I might consider lowering its cost to 20 gold, as this faction definitely needs its units to be taken as cheaper than most, due to how often their frailty will cause them to die...
The other option I can see would be to add the healthy trait to the faction, but I am a bit worried that this would put too much emphasis on those units that got the trait. Low hp units that heal fast would be an interesting thing to see, but I'm not sure this is the faction for them.
If enough people bang their heads against a brick wall, The brick wall will fall down
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Playerkiller
- Posts: 7
- Joined: April 23rd, 2007, 3:41 am
For starters, the Kalifa Arif is a level 2 unit, with no ranged... If you're referring to the Agadath, their only foot unit with reasonable ranged and melee, he has 5*3=15 on both attacks... the loyalist bowman has 12 damage in melee, or 3 less, while having 3 damage more in ranged... I think that's pretty fair...
If enough people bang their heads against a brick wall, The brick wall will fall down
Why don't you find his correct name, his stats, and gc, and correct lvl, and then, maybe there'd be something to discuss.Playerkiller wrote:dunno if this has been said, but the race with the guy called an 'amir' is soooo super imbalanced
the amir is like a super melee plus a decent range, like a lv2 guy all in one..
Hey, it just happened that some people couldn't play, because they didn't have XE Henchman. But they downloaded Extended Era a week ago and I downloaded it three weeks ago, so they have even a newer version than I do and in the unit tree it says XE Henchman exists. So is the unit tree outdated and XE Henchman doesn't exist anymore?
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Mythological
- Inactive Developer
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Mythological
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