Can Wesnoth do shape-changing units?

[Melkor's Therapist]

While thinking about the mechanics and TC possibilities of Wesnoth today, I was wondering the following...

Could a unit that changes (Tranformers-style!) between multiple forms with different properties be represented in Wesnoth somehow?

Apologies if this is an old discussion - I came up with nothing in the search except some talk about lycanthropes, which isn't really the same thing.

Some examples of the kind of thing I'm talking about are the Siege Tanks in Starcraft (which use one form to move and another to attack) or the druids in Warcraft 3. Those are both real-time games, but in Advance Wars (a TBS very similar to Wesnoth in game mechanics) there are two examples of the same thing, both done using different abstractions. Artillery units cannot move and fire in the same turn, which is a nice simple approximation of Siege Tank behaviour. Submarines on the other hand have the option to change "state" at the end of their turn, between submerged and surfaced, with each state having advantages and disadvantages. I should point out here that using both these unit types in Advance Wars is quite fun, IMHO

Afaict, in Wesnoth changes to unit behaviour only go by terrain type (e.g. Ambush, Submerge, terrain defenses) and sometimes by situation relative to other units (Healing abilities, Backstab, Leadership). Things that are "automatic", not requiring the player to select any more options than where the unit goes.

So for an example, could you make a unit in Wesnoth that cannot move and attack in the same turn, to represent a unit that must transform to attack? Or a unit that can use its strong attack only if it has not moved a long way in that turn, to represent having one form for fast movement and one for attacking?

To go a bit further, could you represent - say - a healer who can transform into an eagle, and can either have flying properties (high movement and good defense over all terrains) OR their healing power, but not both in the same turn?

And of course the big question, would this sort of thing add variety to spice up the game, or just overcomplicate it?

[Velensk]

It sounds like it would over complicate things more than it is worth. As of right now there are olny two orders you accualy issue an unit. Move to destination, Attack target. There is no other way to issue a command other than those. You could have to do some seriouse mods to the set-up and then also consiter balancing such a unit as you propose.

[Glowing Fish]

I have thought of this before, in terms of a unit with a "fortify" command, where, if it chose not to move that turn, (or possibly the next turn as well), could have double defense or double resistances.
It could be done, I imagine, in WML without too much trouble.
For most games, I think it would make things a bit more complicated than multiplayer games should be. Multiplayer games already are about complicated enough.
But it might be good for custom units in a custom campaign.

[Melkor's Therapist]

It sounds like it would over complicate things more than it is worth. As of right now there are olny two orders you accualy issue an unit. Move to destination, Attack target. There is no other way to issue a command other than those. You could have to do some seriouse mods to the set-up and then also consiter balancing such a unit as you propose.

How about a simpler version that switches attacks and abilities on or off depending on what the unit has done in that turn?

E.g. if the unit has moved, they don't get their more powerful attack.

That doesn't require any more player input. You couldn't do a unit like the Advance Wars Sub with that, but you could do a unit like the Siege Tank, and many others besides.

Just to give an idea of what I mean, here are three ability proposals which are variations on this theme.

Attack Transforming: A unit with this ability can only use its ranged attacks when it does not move in a turn.
Intended Use: Any unit that had this "ability" (which is actually more of a balancing weakness) would be given a very powerful ranged attack, to make a "Siege Tank"-like unit with a powerful attack that is more difficult to deploy than regular attacks.

Speed Transforming: A unit with this ability can only attack if it has at least half of its MP remaining after moving.
Intended Use: This ability would be given to a unit along with a very high movement rate, representing that it has one form specialised for speedy movement and one for attack.

Special Transforming: A unit with this ability can only use its other abilities when it does not move in a turn.
Intended Use: This ability would be given to a unit along with other desirable specials (such as heals and cures) to create a balanced unit that has one form for moving and one for using magic.

BTW a quick note on why I posted this topic... I think the ability to represent transforming units in some way would increase the options available to campaign and faction makers for making unique and interesting units, without changing the underlying gameplay.
That seems to me to be in line with the "spirit" of Wesnoth, since one of the most unique things about Wesnoth is the huge variety of colourful units and campaigns built on the simple gameplay.

[Drake Blademaster]

Sorry Melkor's Therapist, but I just thought I'd point this out. The link on your signature isn't working. to figure out how to do it, check out this link: Wesnoth Link Creating BTW, sorry, but Velensk was right. Too much work, not enough rewards. You would have to destroy the entire unit command system, and rewrite it from scratch (I think ).
EDIT:
I know, I was kidding.

[JW]

I like Melkor's ideas, and I think his sig is intended to be comical.

[Eleazar]

would this sort of thing add variety to spice up the game, or just overcomplicate it?

Overcomplicate.

However the next release will have some additions which may make this possible in UMCs

[zookeeper]

In my WW1 mod, I currently use similar mechanism to have infantry dig trenches for themselves and medics to build field hospitals. If the unit has not moved nor attacked during it's turn, at the end of the turn (or at the beginning of the next one) it entrenches or builds. It's pretty simple and intuitive to use IMO, and not overly complicated. Of course for something that's supposed to take place in a Wesnothish setting it might not make much sense since no other unit does anything similar (unless you count rest healing), but if you'd be making something more completely different then it's IMO a fairly good mechanism for "charging up" attacks or building things.

[Melkor's Therapist]

I like Melkor's ideas, and I think his sig is intended to be comical.

Indeed it is... it's the best thing I could think of when registering (there wasn't much competition ). I'll probably change it for something more amusing and less confusing later, when I think of something better...

[Melkor's Therapist]

I had another thought about this. I think you could cover most of the interesting possibilities with just a single new weapon special.

This special would be called "transforming" indicating that the unit has to transform to use the attack. An attack with this special would be available only when the unit ends the movement phase of its turn with at least X movement points left, where X is configurable in the abilities file. I guess ZoC would have to be excepted, so that if a such a unit moved into the ZoC of another, it would have no MP left, but for the purposes of "transforming" attacks it would be considered to have as many MP as it would have had left had it moved to the same hex without being ZoC'ed.

That's all there is to it. With that you could do all sorts of entrenching and transforming units that gain new attacks if you restrict how far they move.

I think it could be quite interesting to play with units that used this. A "siege tank" type unit with powerful attacks that can't be used in the same turn as a move would be great for taking encamped enemy hexes - when you move it next to them they either have to kill it or run away. A "speed form/fighting form" unit that loses its best attacks when it uses the full extent of its movement might be kind of cool too, as it would have a different kind of vulnerability than any unit in the game now - you would try to catch it out when it has just moved a long way.

[Velensk]

Personaly I don't see the point. While siege tanks work in starcraft I don't see the major application of a simular unit in wesnoth except for a special senario...

I am sure that a weapon special that refrences and compares move points to used move points is possible and if you make a situation where this is plausable and have the skills I am sure you can make such a special and unit. However I doubt that this will happen in mainline wesnoth.