Preliminary Dwarf Dragonguard Portrait

Karo · Post by **Karo** » February 2nd, 2007, 6:56 pm

Note that this was taken with my webcam, I'll scan in a copy later.

Post by **Kestenvarn** » February 2nd, 2007, 6:59 pm

Seems like a very good start, looking forward to seeing the full sketch.

Karo · Post by **Karo** » February 2nd, 2007, 7:30 pm

Eheh, I just noticed that it looks a lot more like the Dragonguard than I intended. Same pose, same firearm, same cloak.

It was supposed to be a generic Thunderer-line dwarf.

Post by **Sgt. Groovy** » February 2nd, 2007, 8:49 pm

The dwarf looks good (though a bit too Santa Claus-Garden Gnome type), but for the thunderstick, I suggest you find reference from old matchlocks. Also, the hand looks weird, he seems to have one digit too many, and the trigger finger is too long (we should only see the tip of it).

Karo · Post by **Karo** » February 2nd, 2007, 9:00 pm

Ah, I wasn't sure if I wanted the pinky sticking up or not. So I drew it both up and down. Which one do you prefer?

And yeah, the trigger finger is weird.

As for the gun, I was under the impression that they were more along blunderbuss-lines.

[edit]Also, I can't get the thunderstick/dragonstaff butt to look right.

Embellishments that I want to add but won't due to ineptitude in such matters: runes decorating the weapon and clothing textures.[/edit]

Post by **Sgt. Groovy** » February 3rd, 2007, 9:42 am

Ah, I wasn't sure if I wanted the pinky sticking up or not. So I drew it both up and down. Which one do you prefer?

It looks ok when it's a bit relaxed, but sticking straight up seems awkward.

And yeah, the trigger finger is weird.

And people generally don't hold their finger on the trigger until they are ready to shoot. Also, the thumb should be visible on the other side of the grip.

As for the gun, I was under the impression that they were more along blunderbuss-lines.

Well, officially they are not guns at all, but thundersticks. I guess that is supposed avoid anachronism, so they should look like anything that looks good and believable, but not too much what we understand "guns" to be. In that vein, it's good to research into early firearms for inspiration.

The thundersticks could even be more like "hand cannons":

In the sprites, the one thunderer carries looks much like Japanese matchlocks:

Of course, Dwarves could also devise curiosities like this:

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » February 3rd, 2007, 10:36 am

Sgt. Groovy wrote:And people generally don't hold their finger on the trigger until they are ready to shoot.

Not neccesarily, assuming that they have a safety catch that they can flick off in a second (I can tell you from experience that pheasant shooters with shotguns do hold the trigger while walking, but they have the safety catch on untill a target appears)

Karo · Post by **Karo** » February 3rd, 2007, 1:56 pm

Sgt. Groovy wrote: Well, officially they are not guns at all, but thundersticks. I guess that is supposed avoid anachronism, so they should look like anything that looks good and believable, but not too much what we understand "guns" to be. In that vein, it's good to research into early firearms for inspiration.

The thundersticks could even be more like "hand cannons"

That's pretty much what a blunderbuss is. And I based the gun (Jetryl says it is) on the Dragonstaff. They're not called guns because there is no concept of the word "gun" in Wesnoth, but it functions in every way like what we'd call guns - using an explosive force to fire a projectile from a barrel.

I wouldn't mind drawing a second portrait of, say, the Thunderer cleaning his matchlock-looking thunderstick.

Post by **Jetrel** » February 3rd, 2007, 9:23 pm

Karo wrote:
Sgt. Groovy wrote:Well, officially they are not guns at all, but thundersticks. I guess that is supposed avoid anachronism, so they should look like anything that looks good and believable, but not too much what we understand "guns" to be. In that vein, it's good to research into early firearms for inspiration.
That's pretty much what a blunderbuss is. And I based the gun (Jetryl says it is) on the Dragonstaff. They're not called guns because there is no concept of the word "gun" in Wesnoth, but it functions in every way like what we'd call guns - using an explosive force to fire a projectile from a barrel.

Yeah; essentially, the dwarves have a secret recipe for an explosive powder which couldn't be imitated by anyone else even if they knew the secret (some of it is mined material). The point of this is to defuse the almost unavoidable arms-technology surge that follows the introduction of firearms into the world of men - to preserve a "medievalish" future for wesnoth campaigns set after HttT.

Men in wesnoth have no concept of guns, and consider the thundersticks to be sorcerous.

Sgt. Groovy wrote:The thundersticks could even be more like "hand cannons"

That would actually be a very appropriate rendering.

Rev. V! · Post by **Rev. V!** » February 5th, 2007, 6:24 pm

"but for the thunderstick, I suggest you find reference from old matchlocks. "

And if you can't find what you're looking for in that link, PM me and lemme know, I've got 4 of them in the lab, right now, plus a bunch of line drawings we did of the artifacts.....
Remember to make the bore larger than a "normal" firearm, most of the ones we've worked on are around the .80 cal range.
(Yeah, that's a BIG chunk of lead! I can literally stick my thumb down the bore of the ones from the Rincon wreck and there's room to wiggle it around a little bit.

)
Even if it didn't kill you, the mass of the projectile would probably be like getting hit with a two handed swing from a large ball peen hammer.....

As far as a safety- I've done conservation work on a bunch of matchlocks off of Spanish shipwrecks and land sites dating from the 1600's to the 1700's, none of them had ANY sort of safety mechanism.....just a tiller screwed into a sear bar that conected to the serpentine, with a rather stiff flat spring for tension.
Most matchlocks didn't have what we nowadays consider triggers, think more along the line of how a medieval crossbow is fired.

And I've actually fired a (replica) .50 cal matchlock axe before.
They're fun!

Rev. V!

Post by **Darth Fool** » February 5th, 2007, 6:53 pm

And remember, thundersticks are powered by ancient magical dwarven runes crafted by the most skilled of dwarven smiths, not anything as mundane as gunpowder! Portraits should, if at all possible to do while still being aesthetically pleasing, continue the tradition of holding it ambiguous how thundersticks really work. Official Wesnothian Canon

does not endorse thundersticks = guns.

Post by **Sgt. Groovy** » February 5th, 2007, 7:15 pm

I'd like to think that there is a tiny dragon inside, sleeping, and to shoot, it must be woken up by sticking a smouldering match in its arse.

Rev. V! · Post by **Rev. V!** » February 5th, 2007, 8:04 pm

"And remember, thundersticks are powered by ancient magical dwarven runes crafted by the most skilled of dwarven smiths, not anything as mundane as gunpowder!"

Ahhh, ok.
Because I was going to suggest that since units in Wesnoth are assumed to have enough ammo to last a whole battle, a thunderer getting his ass lit up by a red mage or a drake should be a fairly traumatic experience for him!

Rev. V!

Gus · Post by **Gus** » February 5th, 2007, 10:16 pm

Sgt. Groovy wrote:I'd like to think that there is a tiny dragon inside, sleeping, and to shoot, it must be woken up by sticking a smouldering match in its arse.

=D

Karo · Post by **Karo** » February 6th, 2007, 3:25 am

Heh, I embellished the thing with runes anyway, even though I said I wouldn't.

The runes read:

Ring near the dragon head: Dragongard Karo (Dragonguard Karo)

On the triggerguard: Karo Forjed This (Karo Forged This)

On the triggerguard plate (across the bottom of the weapon): Rar (Rawr)

On the triggerguard plate (side of weapon): Pul Tu Thundr (Pull To Thunder)

Wavy line: This Is Just Er Tu Mak It Mor MisterÃƒÂ¯us (This Is Just Here To Make It More Mysterious)

Dragon Loop: Dragon Insid (Dragon Inside)
Block Below Loop: Puf V (Puff Five)

Dragon Double-loop: Warniŋ Remembr Tu FÃƒÂ¯d Thu Litl BÃƒÂ¯st Insid (Warning: Remember To Feed The Little Beast Inside)