bugs (as in insects)

christiano_l · Post by **christiano_l** » December 18th, 2006, 11:38 am

here is the first sprite my brother and I tried to make.
it isn't verry fantastic but it's about the best we could do. let me know how i can make it better

its the egg that is created when the insect queen kill's someone,
i saw something in the thread about buildings that a unit can gain XP every turn it is allive, but it also said that the unit always had to fight to go to the next level, is there anyway to avoid this? because i seriously doubt the warrior capability's of the egg

Fiach Dubh · Post by **Fiach Dubh** » December 18th, 2006, 12:05 pm

christiano_l wrote:a unit can gain XP every turn it is allive, but it also said that the unit always had to fight to go to the next level

Currently you can't avoid this, it's the one fundamental flaw in my 'life-experience' macro. BUT there is a really ugly, hackish way to sweep the problem under the carpet and pretend everything's being done in a rational way

When an Egg reaches its' max_experience, simply [kill] it and spawn a new unit in its place. It's a bit of a cheat, but nobody will ever know (unless they read your utils.cfg, in which case they're dangerously curious and should probably be imprisoned for the good of society

)

In fact, I'll write this for you, I don't have anything better to do right now (my main computer isn't working, so I can't get to any of my own files)

And this is why you love me

Fiach Dubh · Post by **Fiach Dubh** » December 18th, 2006, 2:44 pm

Sorry for the double-post, I think I have a solution for this.
Actually, I have two solutions, but I don't know if either will work right, I can't test because my main computer's broken and I don't have the game installed on this one.

Try this:

Code: Select all

#define EGG_HATCH_ONE
[event]
name=new_turn
first_time_only=no
[store_unit] 
[filter] 
type=Egg 
experience=10
[/filter] 
variable=units 
kill=no 
[/store_unit] 
{FOREACH units i} 
{VARIABLE_OP x format "$units[$i].x"} 
{VARIABLE_OP y format "$units[$i].y"} 
{STORE_UNIT_VAR $x1,$y1 side spawn_side}
[kill] 
x,y=$x,$y 
animate=yes
fire_event=no 
[/kill] 
[unit] 
side=$spawn_side 
type=Hatchling 
x,y=$x,$y 
animate=yes 
[/unit] 
{NEXT i} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE units} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE x} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE y}
[/event]
#enddef

And if that doesn't work, try this one

Code: Select all

:#define EGG_HATCH_TWO
[event]
name=new turn
first_time_only=no
[store_unit] 
[filter] 
type=Egg 
experience=10
[/filter] 
variable=units 
kill=no 
[/store_unit] 
{FOREACH units i} 
{VARIABLE_OP x format "$units[$i].x"} 
{VARIABLE_OP y format "$units[$i].y"} 
{VARIABLE_OP side format "$units[$i].side"} 
[kill] 
x,y=$x,$y 
animate=yes 
fire_event=no 
[/kill] 
[unit] 
side=$side 
type=Hatchling 
x,y=$x,$y 
animate=yes 
[/unit] 
{NEXT i} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE units} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE x} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE y} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE side} 
[/event]
#enddef

Both of these share the same limitation, that an Egg cannot have multiple choices for advancement - it can only possibly advance to the single unit type defined in the macro. You could have types Egg_1, Egg_2 etc which advance to different units. And you can of course advance to a unit which gains experience normally and has a choice of advancements.

Note that the 'experience' key in the filter should be set to equal the Egg's max_experience (in this case, the amount of turns that you want it to take before hatching)

Both of these macros can go into utils.cfg, but you should probably only have one of them in there at a time - try them, pick whichever one works, and delete the other. Also, in case you missed it, here's a version of the experience-gain-per-turn function, modified for this specific use:

Code: Select all

#define EGG_DEVELOP
[event] 
name=new turn 
first_time_only=no 
[store_unit] 
[filter] 
type=Egg
[/filter] 
variable=EGG_DEVELOP_store 
kill=yes 
[/store_unit] 
{FOREACH EGG_DEVELOP_store EGG_DEVELOP_i} 
[set_variable] 
name=EGG_DEVELOP_store[$EGG_DEVELOP_i].experience 
add=1
[/set_variable] 
[unstore_unit] 
variable=EGG_DEVELOP_store[$EGG_DEVELOP_i] 
find_vacant=no 
[/unstore_unit] 
{NEXT EGG_DEVELOP_i} 
{CLEAR_VARIABLE EXPERIENCE_GAIN_store} 
[/event] 
#enddef

This goes in utils.cfg as well. These are specialized forms of the original code, adapted to include a definition of the types of units to which they apply. Because of this, you don't need to add any special code into the unit files themselves - but you must have a separate copy of each macro for each type of Egg unit (technically, you could include multiple types into a single macro, using a [not] [not] structure - but nested [not]s are ugly, cumbersome and generally inelegant)

I hope this all makes sense!

((This is why you REALLY love me!!!))

EDIT: Expert advice (ie, Zookeeper) suggests that EGG_HATCH_ONE might work, but not correctly. Specifically, he says that there would be a problem if more than one player was using the same type of Egg units. Try it, but I would suggest using EGG_HATCH_TWO instead if it works correctly, since it should avoid this difficulty.[/i]

christiano_l · Post by **christiano_l** » December 18th, 2006, 4:04 pm

yep now i really love you

but i'm afraid the experience gaining thing isn't working with me so i din't get to the leveling part, do I have to mention the ability of gaining Xp somewhere or did you say i didn't have to do that? or was it only for the leveling part?
I changed the stats of another unit into the egg's and then i made it recruitable in a other faction after i put the XP gaining thing in the utils folder, mabey there's something wrong here

[unit]
id=Egg
name= _ "Egg"
race=Egg
this is what i did, the rest of the unit stayed the same,
so please tell me where i'm wrong so i can correct it

grts

christiano_l · Post by **christiano_l** » December 18th, 2006, 9:03 pm

sorry for posting again

but as the leveling thing isn't working quiet well I worked a bit at their history. here it comes

after the defeat of the liches in the east, the corpses of their undead minions where left there to decay further. and as nature decomposed the bodies of the undead creatures, all kinds of insect consumed them, as time pased the dark magics that had been used to resurect these creatures started to have their influence on the insect's their entire biological system was rearanged,they grew to unatural proportions and they started reproducing with all other kinds of insects. but evolution made that almost all of the offspring's couldn't reproduce, except two kinds; the queens and the larvea, the queens where the insect's egg layers, and the larvae where the furtilisors, they contained all genetic material off all the other species and thus could create all kind's of offspring. While the queens where able to lay all kinds of egg's. this way all of the queen's offspring have a telephatic bond with here, and actualy are her mindless minion's. the numbers of these insect empires are despite battling unendlesly with each other, constantly growing, for now, they don't pose a thread to the lands of wesnoth. But as their numbers grow they'll need more teritorium to feed from they'll try to take over the human lands.

so thats what i invented, tell me if u think it's a crapy idea and then maybe i'll think up something else

I apoligise again for my bad spelling and such.

grts christiano

Fiach Dubh · Post by **Fiach Dubh** » December 19th, 2006, 3:00 am

Sorry, my mistake, I mixed up my files.

If you put the macros into utils.cfg, you do need to include {EGG_HATCH_TWO} and {EGG_DEVELOP} in the Egg unit file (anywhere in the file, I put things like this at the very start:

Code: Select all

[unit]
{EGG_DEVELOP}
{EGG_HATCH_TWO}
id=Egg
name= _ "Egg"
etc

If you wanted to use this in just a single scenario, you could include the events in the scenario file instead, and you then wouldn't need to reference it in the unit file.

christiano_l · Post by **christiano_l** » December 19th, 2006, 11:52 am

you where right, It work's now, thank you verry much

grts christiano

Skizzaltix · Post by **Skizzaltix** » December 20th, 2006, 3:46 pm

Oh cool! I was thinking of making an 'Invertebrates' faction, but looks like you got there first!

Because I'm an Arthropod Fanatic, I'll give you my two cents...

Bombardier Beetles should be a level one archery unit--Not much hp, but a melee and ranged 'spray acid' attack, with First Strike, Magical, or Marksman, but not Poison, because the stuff is poisonous to some kinds of animal including humans, but not in a way that is implementable in Wesnoth.

You could also put Vinegaroons in a line with Bombardiers, but that wouldn't make sense because it's an Arachnid changing into an Insect or vice versa, but then you already have Grasshoppers turning into Praying Mantids.
I would have the Mantid line go like this...

Code: Select all

Mantis Larva --> Praying Mantis --> Ancient Mantis

And they would all have ambush, but be fairly weak physically.
You might also want a Mosquito line, with a fairly powerful, one-hit, Drain melee pierce attack, but I dunno.

Dragonflies are huge, nasty predators, worse than most beetles. Make the scouts be Damselflies, thy are like Dragonflies only smaller and less noisy.

For the beetle line, maybe:

Code: Select all

Stag Beetle --> Rhinoceraus Beetle --> Goliath Beetle

These are actually all real species, but I don't think they are related too closely. But who cares?

You could also have it go:

Code: Select all

Stag Beetle --> Rhinoceraus Beetle --> Goliath Beetle
                  --> Wheel Bug

the Wheel Bug is a narsty predator. It would have a melee pierce 'proboscis' attack, with Poison, Slow, or Drain. Your choice.

You could have the Eggs need one experience to hatch, and have no attacks but really high defense--That way when attacked, they would hatch. It would also eliminate the need for coding, and make them playable on any map, easy. It does seem to be a little odd thematically, but hey, Wesnoth Is Not Real Life.

Having read your description of how these monsters came about, I am reminded of the Zerg.... But that's okay.

Please forgive the looong reply. You can ignore any or all of the above if you wish.

That said, I'm not much of an artist, but I'd be willing to help out with graphics if you want!

christiano_l · Post by **christiano_l** » December 20th, 2006, 4:36 pm

thanx! your post was verry helpfull! after looking up some of the names i discovered these where just the bugs i was looking for.
i used a lot of you idea's to make the new unit tree.
stag beetle--> rinoceros beetle --> goliath beetle
-->wheel bug--> assasin bug
manits-->prayer mantis-->ancient mantis
ant-->warrior ant--> super ant
-->ant runner --> flying ant
dragon fly--> ??? --> ???
mosquito--> ???
bombardier beetle --> ??? --> ???

some things to mention:
- the dragonfly is still here, not as a scout but as heavy air assault
-bombardier beetle is now lv1 otherwise their wouldn't be enough ranged
-mosquite is now used for scout line (something like the UD bat)
i droped the egg idea, because it made things verry coplicated when the queen kills someone now he turns into al larva, and the larva can become all kinds of insect's
help with the names is still verry wecome just as it is with the "art"
that's about it
grts

Skizzaltix · Post by **Skizzaltix** » December 20th, 2006, 5:04 pm

Names... Hm. Ants could go...

Code: Select all

Ant --> Soldier Ant --> Army Ant
      --> Worker Ant --> Formic Ant
      --> Runner Ant

Just plain Ants are small and weak but cheap, Soldiers are tougher and have higher attack, Workers have a ranged 'spray acid' attack (There is a kind of ant that sprays formic acid, hence the 'Formic Ant'), and Runners are fast. I don't know abou the flying ants, though--In real life they are only the breeding pairs, but you can bend that around all you want.
Also, Assassin bugs are little and small, but that's okay, I like the name and I doubt there are many people who object.

Again, feel free to ignore my naming suggestions.

Yeah, heavy-assualt Dragonflies are good!

EDIT:

Here's an Ant. It looks silly, I know, but my drawings are reeeaaally bad at this stage. it should start to look better as I work on it more.
So, thoughts? Comments?
Christiano, this is your faction, so if you see something that you want to look different, tell me.

Post by **F8 Binds...** » December 20th, 2006, 6:10 pm

christiano_l wrote:thanx! your post was verry helpfull! after looking up some of the names i discovered these where just the bugs i was looking for.
i used a lot of you idea's to make the new unit tree.
stag beetle--> rinoceros beetle --> goliath beetle
-->wheel bug--> assasin bug
manits-->prayer mantis-->ancient mantis
ant-->warrior ant--> super ant
-->ant runner --> flying ant
dragon fly--> ??? --> ???
mosquito--> ???
bombardier beetle --> ??? --> ???

some things to mention:
- the dragonfly is still here, not as a scout but as heavy air assault
-bombardier beetle is now lv1 otherwise their wouldn't be enough ranged
-mosquite is now used for scout line (something like the UD bat)
i droped the egg idea, because it made things verry coplicated when the queen kills someone now he turns into al larva, and the larva can become all kinds of insect's
help with the names is still verry wecome just as it is with the "art"
that's about it
grts

You may completely ignore my comments.

-The mosquito should get a drain melee attack, although that would make it VERY similar to the vampire bat.
-Ant should be lvl 0, and be very cheap, as mentioned earlier.
-Stag beetles could get 2 melee attacks- maybe a impact, and a pierce 10-1 attack might be the other attack.
-The Dragonfly idea is awesome- but how would it attack? tackle? i know these aren't average bugs, but you need to think this over.
-the mantis could get less damage a strike, but get many strikes- like the EF, except instead of 5-4 it could be 4-5, and swarm could go with the mantis. the mantis could also get ambush.

Skizzaltix · Post by **Skizzaltix** » December 20th, 2006, 6:22 pm

Hmm.. A dragonfly would attack with Bite, like they do in real life.
The problem is, Mantids are ambushers--I think they should have ambush, a 5-3 attack or something like that, and a 15-1 Marksman attack. Maybe a 10-1 First Strike attack. Because remember, they are 'ambush'ers.
But then, the way a Mantid kills its prey could be hard to work out with Wesnoth....
If Ants are big, they should be level one. Ants specialise in grabbing foes an bringing them down, so if you go near, you can't just walk right past them.
Admittedly, it would make more sense to have them have 0 upkeep, but you could make it so that the 'Ant' species gets one trait, and can only have the 'loyal' trait. I dunno.

Post by **F8 Binds...** » December 20th, 2006, 6:43 pm

Skizzaltix wrote:Hmm.. A dragonfly would attack with Bite, like they do in real life.
The problem is, Mantids are ambushers--I think they should have ambush, a 5-3 attack or something like that, and a 15-1 Marksman attack. Maybe a 10-1 First Strike attack. Because remember, they are 'ambush'ers.
But then, the way a Mantid kills its prey could be hard to work out with Wesnoth....
If Ants are big, they should be level one. Ants specialise in grabbing foes an bringing them down, so if you go near, you can't just walk right past them.
Admittedly, it would make more sense to have them have 0 upkeep, but you could make it so that the 'Ant' species gets one trait, and can only have the 'loyal' trait. I dunno.

Yes they should get a marksman or firststrike attack, (mantis) you are correct. With ants being lvl one, that changes what I had in mind, but that does make sense. But they could get loyal, as you said, so that makes sense. They also would get the added bonus of having no upkeep at their highest lvl. 15-1 on the marksman attack for mantis is a little high. It is marksman, you know. So a 12-1 marksman attack or a 15-1 firststrike attack would be decent. As the nature of a mantis is "one hit, one kill", it shouldn't get very many hits. In my opinion, if one attack was marksman, the other one should be firststrike. 8-2 firstrike/12-1 marksman?

edit: maybe mosquitos should get west nile virus

christiano_l · Post by **christiano_l** » December 20th, 2006, 7:28 pm

there were some verry good ideas in the replies,
I like it that a lot of people think the dragonfly is a good idea

i think i'm going to apply the idea of the mantis having a firststrike and a marksman attack (seperated offcourse), but i'm not going to give it ambush, im going to keep that for the wheel bug and assasin bug (as they both where refered to as bugs in the assasin category(telle me if im wrong)) but if the assasin bug is smaler then the wheel bug, i'll just swap those two
the idea of zero upkeep ants is good, but the problem is that the level 2 and 3 ants will also be free of upkeep, and maybe that's kind of unbalanced. I dont know what im going to do here yet, maybe i coul make the ants overall weak, but that would give the problem that the
faction wouldn't have a lot of ranged fire... i dont know eather what i'm going to do with the mosquito (as he really resembles the bat) andt that's about all i wanted to say

btw Skizzaltix, the ant is verry usefull, my brother is actualy the one who is most bussy with the sprites but now whe have something to compare with thx

RAT400 · Post by **RAT400** » December 20th, 2006, 7:44 pm

About the mosquito thing... You can make it

mosquito ---> malary mosquito

The mosquito would be very fast (8 movement maybe?) and have a very weak drain attack (like, 2-2 neutral or something) The malary mosquito retains the speed and the weak drain attack, but also gets one stronger one hit poison attack. Make the mosquito level zero with something like 16 XP - problem solved. Any player silly enough not to kill the lvl zero deserves the lvl 1 posion (not plague!), and the AI would be killing them like flies (lol) anyway.

Edit: can you believe that I wrote "plague" instead of "poison"? Luckily everyone undesrstood it correctly...