Imperial Multiplayer Era - version 0.17 released

Oreb · Post by **Oreb** » September 16th, 2006, 5:12 am

Well considering in Ranger M's campaign, Invasion of Arendia, there are both Naga and Mermen. So that's why it will affect him.

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » September 16th, 2006, 6:04 am

Ok, this leaves me with a problem.

On the one hand, a split from the WoW would allow me to have more damage types (yay) and keep Turin happy.

On the other hand I would have to change my campaign, and I would never get to see (or draw, which was what I was really looking forward too) Reth fighting Drakes, and it would effectively waste my Naga Hunter Portrait (unless another campaign adopts it)

However, I can work around it. The nagas could simply be replaced by whatever the Arendian Water unit is, the Mermen by Water Spirits/Maruauders, and the drakes by Wryvms. Although it would require some re-writing it wouldn't affect the overall story very drastically (I could even keep the bit where some of whatever the water based creatures learn magic if I really wanted).

Anyway, before I do any of that I'll have to work out exactly what the Arendian water unit is....

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » September 16th, 2006, 1:17 pm

Ranger M wrote:The nagas could simply be replaced by whatever the Arendian Water unit is, the Mermen by Water Spirits/Maruauders, and the drakes by Wryvms. Although it would require some re-writing it wouldn't affect the overall story very drastically (I could even keep the bit where some of whatever the water based creatures learn magic if I really wanted).

Anyway, before I do any of that I'll have to work out exactly what the Arendian water unit is....

If the Dardans ever get finished, they were intended to have a water unit, a Greek sailor.

Same with the Gentes Orcorum (or Orces Gentorum, whichever), a fishergoblin.

And, of course, there's the Frost Elf trained seal.

Post by **turin** » September 16th, 2006, 3:43 pm

Err... that question mark was completely a typo. I really am going to do almost all of the work here, no question about it.

Glad to see Ranger M (the one getting in essence screwed over by this; sorry about that, again) isn't completely against it; so, let's start the brainstorming!

There are a few things to discuss... they are, as near as I can figure out:

1. Damage types. We have a lot of freedom in this area, and since the IE isn't all that balanced right now anyway, we still have time to change it up a bit. And that's one of the reasons to make a decision now, not later - the longer we wait, the harder it will be to change the damage types, because the era will be more balanced.

2. What non-humanoid creatures live in the IE, and what their levels of consciousness are - I propose, we have various monsters (=Wyverns, Sea Serpents, Dragons, the like), but none of them are rational, any more than lizards in this world are rational. We could, however, if we want to add some religious-type stufff, say that Dragons can be rational if they are possessed by demons (a la LotR).

3. What non-material creatures live in the IE. We already have undead, in the Sidhe Ancestor line. I don't have a problem with adding various spirits, like Ranger M suggests, but I do think they shouldn't be native to the IE - they should be summoned, not native to the land.

4. What the Arendian water creature is going to be. My idea was to have it be either a trained animal of some sort, or a guy riding a water creature of some sort. We can have it be a real-life creature, or a mythical creature, though if it is a mythical creature it has to be done well.

5. What exactly magic means in the IE. I have some ideas on this, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say first.

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » September 16th, 2006, 4:32 pm

turin wrote:Ranger M (the one getting in essence screwed over by this; sorry about that, again)

I don't mind that much, the nagas and mermen were only in there to add more interest to the Thrashan part, and could have been anything, anything at all, the only dis-advantage is having to re-work parts of the scenarios (the Saving Nagas one) and remove another (the Naga Temple one, which isn't a bad thing as it wasn't all that good anyway), the rest will just be a case of substituting names and ids. The drakes were only going to be included because I felt like it anyway, and I can easily replace them with wryvms.

turin wrote:4. What the Arendian water creature is going to be. My idea was to have it be either a trained animal of some sort, or a guy riding a water creature of some sort. We can have it be a real-life creature, or a mythical creature, though if it is a mythical creature it has to be done well.

I agree with that, although I could do a flying creature. These are my current ideas:

1) some kind of water beast
2) some kind of flying creature (eagle, etc, could even be one of the wryvms)
3) one of the above as a ridden creature (this would fit the faction well as they do like riding units)
4) some kind of magical summon, or guy who can use magic to swim underwater (I don't like this as much, if at all, because it's iffy and magic doesn't really suit the Arendians all that well)

Post by **turin** » September 16th, 2006, 5:15 pm

Mounted Wyverns, perhaps? Although that might seem too evil for the Arendians, it does seem to fit their factional character otherwise. I agree a flying unit would be better, since right now we have a ratio of 3 swimming to 1 flying unit.

Post by **Maeglin Dubh** » September 16th, 2006, 5:17 pm

It would require changes made to the background information of several units, as Arendians are currently depicted as having a death-feud with all dragons.

Post by **turin** » September 16th, 2006, 5:26 pm

Maeglin Dubh wrote:It would require changes made to the background information of several units, as Arendians are currently depicted as having a death-feud with all dragons.

Actually, that probably makes more sense. Mounted eagles, then? We could have it so that eagles and wyverns are mortal enemies, at least as much as any two non-rational races can be mortal enemies.

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » September 16th, 2006, 5:55 pm

turin wrote:
Maeglin Dubh wrote:It would require changes made to the background information of several units, as Arendians are currently depicted as having a death-feud with all dragons.
Actually, that probably makes more sense. Mounted eagles, then? We could have it so that eagles and wyverns are mortal enemies, at least as much as any two non-rational races can be mortal enemies.

I'm fine with this, I'll do some sprites eventually (I'm going to be busy with some other things this weekend, so I might not have time to do it)

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » September 16th, 2006, 7:49 pm

Ranger M wrote:
turin wrote: Actually, that probably makes more sense. Mounted eagles, then? We could have it so that eagles and wyverns are mortal enemies, at least as much as any two non-rational races can be mortal enemies.
I'm fine with this, I'll do some sprites eventually (I'm going to be busy with some other things this weekend, so I might not have time to do it)

How about the roc? It is a mythical bird not unlike an eagle, but much bigger. If we're having a man ride it, a roc just might make better sense than an eagle, and make just as much sense for the faction.

Roc Rider -> Roc Warrior -> Roc Master

Post by **zookeeper** » September 16th, 2006, 8:03 pm

Temuchin Khan wrote:How about the roc? It is a mythical bird not unlike an eagle, but much bigger. If we're having a man ride it, a roc just might make better sense than an eagle, and make just as much sense for the faction.

How about expanding on what we already have - gryphons? There could easily be (a different breed of, if necessary) gryphons living on the old continent.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » September 16th, 2006, 8:08 pm

turin wrote:1. Damage types. We have a lot of freedom in this area, and since the IE isn't all that balanced right now anyway, we still have time to change it up a bit.

I like JW's EOM idea of not only more damage types, but also more attack types.

Maybe we could have something like this:

3 attack types: melee, ranged, and spirit (understood in a very broad sense)

melee damage types: cut, pierce, impact, fire, cold, lightning, acid

ranged damage types: cut, pierce, impact, fire, cold, lightning, acid

spirit damage types: holy, shadow, disrupt, control

turin wrote:2. What non-humanoid creatures live in the IE, and what their levels of consciousness are - I propose, we have various monsters (=Wyverns, Sea Serpents, Dragons, the like), but none of them are rational, any more than lizards in this world are rational. We could, however, if we want to add some religious-type stufff, say that Dragons can be rational if they are possessed by demons (a la LotR).

Maybe we could have multiple types of dragons. In particular, I'd like to see not only fire dragons but also acid-spitting dragons.

EDIT:

zookeeper wrote:How about expanding on what we already have - gryphons? There could easily be (a different breed of, if necessary) gryphons living on the old continent.

We could, except that we are currently brainstorming about whether to move the Imperial Era from the world of Wesnoth to another world altogether!

Oreb · Post by **Oreb** » September 16th, 2006, 10:16 pm

turin wrote:Err... that question mark was completely a typo. I really am going to do almost all of the work here, no question about it.

I'll still be happy to help out, well with the sidhe. Since I know basically what they are, I just need to put it on paper.

turin wrote:1. Damage types. We have a lot of freedom in this area, and since the IE isn't all that balanced right now anyway, we still have time to change it up a bit. And that's one of the reasons to make a decision now, not later - the longer we wait, the harder it will be to change the damage types, because the era will be more balanced.

And just as I thought I was nearly done with the Sidhe.

No, I am fine with this, bring on the lightning!

turin wrote:3. What non-material creatures live in the IE. We already have undead, in the Sidhe Ancestor line. I don't have a problem with adding various spirits, like Ranger M suggests, but I do think they shouldn't be native to the IE - they should be summoned, not native to the land.

Well in IoA there are the undead and orcish hordes. But apart from that I beleive only the Sidhe have the warriors whose spirits are willing.

turin wrote:5. What exactly magic means in the IE. I have some ideas on this, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say first.

First of all, a correction (usually turin does the correcting): What exactly does magic mean in the IE? (otherwise we know what your saying, but its still messed up)

But anyway, well going on that the Sidhe and Frost Elves had the magic when they left the NC, and magic proves to be great power when used effectively. So I believe magic stands for power, and among the Sidhe, nobility.

Temuchin Khan · Post by **Temuchin Khan** » September 16th, 2006, 11:51 pm

Oreb wrote:
turin wrote:1. Damage types. We have a lot of freedom in this area, and since the IE isn't all that balanced right now anyway, we still have time to change it up a bit. And that's one of the reasons to make a decision now, not later - the longer we wait, the harder it will be to change the damage types, because the era will be more balanced.
And just as I thought I was nearly done with the Sidhe. :P No, I am fine with this, bring on the lightning!

I hope so! I suggested lightning mainly because I thought that the Sidhe could find a use for it.

Besides, the attack types and damage types I suggested are, as far as I'm concerned, still up for debate. I just wanted to get something on the table. Feel free to suggest others or drop some as the case may be! But I would still like to see those acid-spitting dragons....

Post by **turin** » September 17th, 2006, 12:43 am

RE: Roc, giant eagle, whatever. I'm not a big fan of the word "roc" though, for two reasons - it reminds me of Arabic mythology, which the Arendians shouldn't IMHO be associated with, and it reminds of of the bright yellow lightning-spitting canary from Heroes of Might and Magic.

RE: Range types. I have no philosophical objections to splitting it into three, not two (melee, ranged, and magic, I would assume), but I'm not sure if it makes sense realism-wise or balance-wise. Realism-wise, why wouldn't an archer be able to shoot back at a mage throwing fireballs at it? Balance-wise, it just seems much more complicated. We'll discuss it though.

RE: Damage types. I suggest ({} means I'm not sure):
stab (=dagger), blade (=sword), {heavy blade =axe}, pierce (=arrows, short spears), impale (=pikes, lances), impact (=maces, clubs), fire (=flaming arrows, MAGIC), electricity (=MAGIC), ice (=MAGIC), shadow (=MAGIC), holy (=MAGIC, and only damaging against undead - nothing else).

RE: Undead. Forgot to mention them, but hell yeah they're going to be in the Imperial Era! At least, there might not be an undead faction (though I would like one), but undead will exist on the Old Continent (or whatever we decide to call it now).

RE: Magic. My idea is that different types of magic are native to the different races (elves have "high magic", orcs have a sort of shamanistic magic, dwarves if we want to have them have runic magic), and humans can learn all of the different types but none of them are native to them (they have to be taught by other races).