Naga Hunter

[Zhukov]

Nice. Glad to see that shoulder get the attention it was screaming for.

I really think the face needs to be redone from scratch. Something about the angles simply isn't right in a way that is beyond my limited powers of description. I'm not saying it's drastically wrong or anything, it's not. But it's just 'off' enough to prevent the image from 'sitting right'.

[Ranger M]

@Jetryl: Sweet edit, I'll fix it up later today.

@Oreb: The bow colour has already changed, and if I make it any more yellow then it starts looking wrong.

[Oreb]

@Jetryl: Sweet edit, I'll fix it up later today.

@Oreb: The bow colour has already changed, and if I make it any more yellow then it starts looking wrong.

How about not using the yellow colour, for even Jetryl says the bow colour needs to be changed, why don't you keep it as the usual brown, or if its coral, don't forget about all the exotic colours. (well atleast in Australia they are exotic.

[Ranger M]

How about not using the yellow colour, for even Jetryl says the bow colour needs to be changed, why don't you keep it as the usual brown, or if its coral, don't forget about all the exotic colours. (well atleast in Australia they are exotic.

Where? I can't find any place in Jetryl's post saying that the colour of the bow needs changing.

As fro not using yellow, I prefered it when it was much whiter because that is what colour bones which get bleached by the sun on beaches, etc (which is where they would probably get these) are but it was too similar to the grey on his skin, so I increased the saturation (it was already a slightly yellowy white) to help distinguish them.

Personally I like both colour equally, so I don't really mind which is used, but having it as the same colour (or close to the same) as parts of the Naga's skin would be bad so I'm probably going to stick to the current colour.

[Thumper]

So, clean up the hacks (especially the lines) on my traceover, and change the color of the bow, and you'd actually have something mainline-quality.

[wayfarer]

So, clean up the hacks (especially the lines) on my traceover, and change the color of the bow, and you'd actually have something mainline-quality.

Just quoting another person doesn't makes the point more valid.
I quess RangerM got the point.

Edit:

yeah reading before posting is better, sorry

[Corwin]

Ranger M,

I have to say that you are getting much better at art. I remember the stuff you used to make and this is worlds better. Keep up the good work!

[Ranger M]

@Oreb: as thumper's post proves, I was wrong (there I said it, happy now?).

Anyway, this now begs the questions of what colour it should be, as I said I like this one and the whiter one, you also mentioned brown, but I would associate brown with older, more brittle ones, which definately wouldn't bend in any way (and bones don't bend very much anyway, although if you take out the calcium by boiling it in alchahol, or maybe it was an acid, I can't remeber, they do become very bendy, but still the brown would look brittle).

Ranger M,

I have to say that you are getting much better at art. I remember the stuff you used to make and this is worlds better. Keep up the good work!

Thanks although I still prefer the other method that you saw on the GM forums (I assume that that is what you are talking about, unless you just happen to have the same name as the Corwin on those forums), and I have produced much better pieces in that style too.



Anyway, I've finished editing apart from the bone bow colour, but I need to eat right now so I'll post it in about an hour when I've finished it.

[Oreb]

Yes, yes I Am.

Hmm.. well I thought brown would be alright, considering the colour of there sprites*. And usually portraits go off the sprites, though with more detailing.

*That is unless your redoing the sprites.

[Ranger M]

Yes, yes I Am.

Hmm.. well I thought brown would be alright, considering the colour of there sprites*. And usually portraits go off the sprites, though with more detailing.

*That is unless your redoing the sprites.

the naga hunter sprite has a grey bow, so I really don't see what you're talking about.

Anyway, sorry about the delay on getting this to you guys, my internet went down last night.

The only two differences between this and Jetyrl's version/suggestions is the lack of shinyness on his grey skin (I see that as being less slimy than the green, so it doesn't get shinyness) and I haven't changed the bow colour, simply because I cannot find anything that looks better (suggestions welcome), so aside from that this should be finished.

[Jetrel]

The only two differences between this and Jetyrl's version/suggestions is the lack of shinyness on his grey skin (I see that as being less slimy than the green, so it doesn't get shinyness) and I haven't changed the bow colour, simply because I cannot find anything that looks better (suggestions welcome), so aside from that this should be finished.

Things that are good:
• Face is 90% fixed. Getting faces to line up right is really hard, and this isn't *quite* perfect, but it's good enough. It's probably not worth flogging yourself to make it better.

• Near (his right) arm and chest/pecs/etc. is good.


You're missing:

• The neck needs to change all the way to the way it was in my edit - he has no trapezoidus, that needs to be fixed.
• The far shoulder (his left) is still way too high, you've reverted it to being wrong. The horizon line of perspective is at about shoulder level, based on the recession of other features in the drawing. Therefore all elements at that level must be at the same height in the drawing. This makes the far shoulder appear to be several inches higher in physical space than the right shoulder.
• The hand, you've again reverted to being wrong.
• The bow is not halfways between our versions, it's in the original position.

Use what I gave you, it will solve these problems.

Anatomy and foreshortening are not matters of opinion. They're a hard science; if they weren't, then people couldn't code programs like Metacreation's Poserâ„¢. Poser, and realistic CG don't run on fairy dust, they run on hard, exact geometry.

When I make a major edit like that, and bold it in red, I am right and you are wrong. I'm not right about everything, but when I make statements like that, I make them only when I know I'm right to the best of my ability. Your, and every other human beings' "intuition about what looks right and what looks wrong" is flawed. Take what it says with a grain of salt. If everyone is telling you it's wrong, even when it looks ok to you, entertain the idea that your sense of "it looking right" might be leading you astray. Need an example? -> http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10911

Intuition is something you build up over time; I suggest you save this drawing, and look back on it in the future; sooner or later it will look "off" to you. I've had this happen to me all the time - looking through my old piles of sketches is torturous. When I do that, I feel like ripping my face off in shame; for being such a fool when I drew them.

Just trust me.

I'm trying to jump-start your sense of what looks right and wrong; maybe I'm moving too fast. I just don't want you to have to go through the growing pains I had to go through; though perhaps they are a necessary part of learning.



(It's also seriously possible that you focused on a few of the things, and totally forgot about the others. Who knows?)

[Ranger M]

• The neck needs to change all the way to the way it was in my edit - he has no trapezoidus, that needs to be fixed.
• The far shoulder (his left) is still way too high, you've reverted it to being wrong. The horizon line of perspective is at about shoulder level, based on the recession of other features in the drawing. Therefore all elements at that level must be at the same height in the drawing. This makes the far shoulder appear to be several inches higher in physical space than the right shoulder.
• The hand, you've again reverted to being wrong.
• The bow is not halfways between our versions, it's in the original position.

It is quite possible that I focused on the wrong things, I'll just address these points.

On the neck I had assumed that you edit was getting rid of the way in which his neck goes in behind our point of view, which I couldn't really understand the reason for so I assumed that you just wanted to move it forward to be more human like, whereas I wanted to keep it where it was because that was how I imagined naga necks would work. This was just a misunderstanding of the meaning of your edit, I'll fix it in the next version.

I think I must have accidentaly skimmed over your comment on the left shoulder, because I did change the coller bone, but I don't remember even thinking about fixing that.

With the hand I had thought that you edit just made it bigger, but really I don't see the problem with it, I actually modeled that off of the position that my own hand takes when I hold a long thin cylinder (I used a stick), could you explain exactly what's wrong with it?

The bow isn't in the origional position however you are probably right (despite my intuition's complaints) I should edit it so that it is closer to your version (it is actually about a third of the way to your position, at least that was my intent, it could be a quarter).

Anyway, I'll fix these up after lessons today.

[Jetrel]

It is quite possible that I focused on the wrong things, I'll just address these points.

Oh, you fixed a bunch of things quite well, you've just got to fix ... more.

On the neck I had assumed that you edit was getting rid of the way in which his neck goes in behind our point of view, which I couldn't really understand the reason for so I assumed that you just wanted to move it forward to be more human like, whereas I wanted to keep it where it was because that was how I imagined naga necks would work. This was just a misunderstanding of the meaning of your edit, I'll fix it in the next version.

As kind of a rule, anthropomorphic creatures generally should, when they share a body part with a human, also share the same construction of it.

This is case when you can legitimately play the fantasy card; if his neck is supposed to work in different ways than a person, it should be shaped differently. But, this "shaping differently" should follow it's own self-consistent logic.

So, it *would* make sense for him to have more of straight neck (if he's able to crane his neck up like a snake), however, it would *not* make sense for him to lack a trapezoidus, in fact the opposite is true, his trapezoidus (since he's got an essentially human set of shoulders, and this muscles is mounted on there) would be much larger than normal. He'd have a bodybuilder's trapezoidus.

I think I must have accidentaly skimmed over your comment on the left shoulder, because I did change the coller bone, but I don't remember even thinking about fixing that.

*nods* Okay - I'm just glad you weren't choosing to willfully ignore it.

With the hand I had thought that you edit just made it bigger, but really I don't see the problem with it, I actually modeled that off of the position that my own hand takes when I hold a long thin cylinder (I used a stick), could you explain exactly what's wrong with it?

Size is the only problem, and Jormungandr has established that naga have human-sized hands.

The hand is too small. I had this problem myself (look at the old portrait from "The Eastern Invasion" of Dacyn for an example of my bad work). Try to always overestimate the size of hands, because a hand that's too big doesn't look nearly as wrong as a hand that's too small. Vis-a-vis for feet and heads.
http://image.mapleglobal.com/common/err ... _npc01.gif

I seriously had this problem, bad. And it lasted for over a year, until I finally broke down and tried oversizing things.

The bow isn't in the origional position however you are probably right (despite my intuition's complaints) I should edit it so that it is closer to your version (it is actually about a third of the way to your position, at least that was my intent, it could be a quarter).

Anyway, I'll fix these up after lessons today.

*nods*

[Thumper]

I haven't changed the bow colour, simply because I cannot find anything that looks better (suggestions welcome)

Ivory white-yellow? It's either made of some creature's long horn (like prehistoric short bows) or driftwood, right?

- Chris

[Ranger M]

@Jetryl: Ok, so I've got to make the hand bigger again (I think I must have drawn that thing at least four times now), I can do that.

Ivory white-yellow? It's either made of some creature's long horn (like prehistoric short bows) or driftwood, right?

- Chris

It's made out of a rib from some large sea creature, and softened somehow (I'll look this up at some point) in a way which removes the calcuim so that it becomes more bendy (this would actually work, because I've done this before in biology, and if you didn't take out all of the calcuim then it would be about as bendy as wood is, and you could increase the bendyness by removing more, but that would also reduce some of the power, so it would be a case of finding a balance)

can you post a sample of Ivory white-yellow, because if somebody asked me to produce that colour I would use colours very similar to the ones I've used at the moment.