Music Ideas!

[Temuchin Khan]

I wouldn't want this track in the game.

Thanks! I just wondered what the official evaluation of it was, and that's perfectly clear. Nice atmosphere, but lacking elsewhere.

[Stilgar]

As someone who's played Doom a lot, I can say with certainty that it's not from there. I guess the choir part could remind someone of "Sign of Evil", but it's not a rip of that.
The soundtrack, for anyone who wishes to compare: http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/info/music.php

[samuelf]

Hi guys, just thought I'd reply to some of the crits here, as I can see my offering has produced mixed feelings to say the least. I had let this post languish a while, as it was made in the enthusiasm of first discovering Westnoth. I should also point out that I stated quite clearly that this was a rough sketch, and it was made in a couple of hours. Further work has not continued as yet...

I'd like to thank Temuchin Khan for his kind words, and others. And I'd like to encourage him to go with what he likes, and not with what others may say, no matter how knowledgable they may seem .

Tim, the ethnic drums are Taiko, and are from the Kontakt sample library (not top end, but not cheap), as are all the other samples excepting the synth choir if my memory serves me. The fact that this isn't a final mix may be why you thought these were bad samples. My personal philosophy towards the music to this game is that it should present a pleasant yet relevant backing, that doesn't impose on the listener too much (EDIT: the popular Wesnoth-1.ogg a good example of this). They say that if you notice the music in a film, then the composer hasn't done his job properly, and I think this applies here also.

My guess would be this:

For some reason the first part reminds me of an old DOOM bgm.

Since this is just some random guy who only has 6 posts, and who hasn't really proven that he's legit, if the music sounds similar to that of an old game it's quite possible that's because it was ripped from an old game - thus making it illegal for us to use it.

To this, I offer the screen capture from my sequencer... (so cynical Turin! )

Presently I am working quietly on artwork and storylines for my own campaign and may post my progress if I dare! I am glad that the majority of folks have enjoyed the scetch, and all are free to use and/or abuse it, but as Tim says, it may need a liitle attention before it'd be ready for anything on the server, (and I am intending to clean it up eventually!). If there is enough demand I'll put more effort into the composing side, otherwise it'll get done as the mood takes me..

Cheers

The now "legit" Samuelf

[Temuchin Khan]

Presently I am working quietly on artwork and storylines for my own campaign and may post my progress if I dare! :wink: I am glad that the majority of folks have enjoyed the scetch, and all are free to use and/or abuse it, but as Tim says, it may need a liitle attention before it'd be ready for anything on the server, (and I am intending to clean it up eventually!). If there is enough demand I'll put more effort into the composing side, otherwise it'll get done as the mood takes me..

Cheers

The now "legit" Samuelf

Hey, the best way to prove that your music is legit is to finish the piece! I'd be interested to what it would be like with a bit more development....

[TimothyP]

You are right about film music. Lots of people say that it should not distract. On the other hand, in video games, I think it works differently. Maybe for a cinematic scene, the film music theory applies, but not for gameplay. When I'm playing a game, I want the music to stand out and to be really good. I want it to be good enough for me to buy the soundtrack. There are many game composers doing this kind of music. When playing a game like Wesnoth where there is nothing to be distracted from, I don't think it is necessary to compose in the subtle manner you're describing. Even when composing in that style, you can have very complex and interesting subtlety.

But let me add, you do have better samples than most people who post here. And your music is good for what it is. I can definitely see it fitting in the game, just not in the main library. And I don't doubt you can do more complex music.

--Timothy

[torangan]

Since the question of good samples pops up so often - isn't it possible for someone to compose with inferior samples and then send the files to someone with high quality samples for the output? I suppose this doesn't work because you've got to specify rather closely what samples to use for an optimal result?

[TimothyP]

That sounds very complicated to me. That would require LOTS of time for the person who is converting the music to better samples, when that person would rather be composing their own music.

I wish it were as simple as writing up a midi file and having a different set of samples play it back, but it isn't. Sequencing is time consuming and requires lots of attention to detail.

On the other hand, if a composer were to write up a nice, legible orchestral score, and someone who had a good orchestra library had time to do it, he could just read the score and sequence the piece in his studio. Again, this requires lots of time and effort on the guy with the studio.

That's the only possibility I can think of. I know I don't have that kind of time. Hopefully someone with a sweet studio and lots of time joins up soon!

I really wish there were a way to make good music without spending lots of money. But there isn't. Today, the standard is high and it makes it hard for new composers to get into the field. I know lots of composers. Some of them built up their studio piece by piece as they came into money, some inherited enough to just buy their studio in one swoop, others took out big loans, and many just worked hard at their day job to save up for their equipment.

--Timothy

[samuelf]

Hey guys,

Torangan, what you suggest is possible, and can be achieved fairly easily by someone with some tech-no-how and the right equipment. It'd probably require a lot of communication of ideas and requirements etc.. If you have some music you've written, and would like it recorded, I'd suggest maybe posting it as a MIDI file, and requesting some help. Perhaps someone will have some free time...

You are right about film music. Lots of people say that it should not distract. On the other hand, in video games, I think it works differently. Maybe for a cinematic scene, the film music theory applies, but not for gameplay. When I'm playing a game, I want the music to stand out and to be really good. I want it to be good enough for me to buy the soundtrack. There are many game composers doing this kind of music. When playing a game like Wesnoth where there is nothing to be distracted from, I don't think it is necessary to compose in the subtle manner you're describing. Even when composing in that style, you can have very complex and interesting subtlety.

But let me add, you do have better samples than most people who post here. And your music is good for what it is. I can definitely see it fitting in the game, just not in the main library. And I don't doubt you can do more complex music.

--Timothy

Point taken on the subject of film music being different from game music Tim, yet the overriding point is that others have said they liked the music which, putting our arguments over our preferred genre of game music aside, is what probably matters. Thanks for the compliment (I think!), though I don't think I asked to be in the main library.

Since posting the other day I've been inspired to get off my butt (thanks Temuchin )... Here is a considerably more fleshed-out version of the original piece, with additional string and wind parts, some extra percussion and a choir with more developed textures. I've also made it more loop-friendly with pauses at either end for those who said they might like to use it. You'll need to turn it into an .ogg yourself though... Turn the volume up and enjoy!

http://www.samuelf.com/audio/Wesnoth01b.mp3


Cheers,

Samuelf

[grzywacz]

I like it and am completly sure, that it would be an awesome music for a custom campaign or very specific scenarios (underground temple of evil? ) . However its style is completly different from the music we have in game ATM and I'd also welcome a little bit more o variety.

Anyway - good job.

[TimothyP]

You're right, Samuelf. At the end of the day, what matters is whether or not people have a taste for your music. If they like it, great! You succeeded.

My point of view is more as a composer than a listener - I hope you understand.

--Timothy

[samuelf]

I like it and am completly sure, that it would be an awesome music for a custom campaign or very specific scenarios (underground temple of evil? ) . However its style is completly different from the music we have in game ATM and I'd also welcome a little bit more o variety.

Anyway - good job.

Thanks grzywacz, I appreciate it!. I'd agree that the mood of this piece isn't suitable for all scenarios.

You're right, Samuelf. At the end of the day, what matters is whether or not people have a taste for your music. If they like it, great! You succeeded.

My point of view is more as a composer than a listener - I hope you understand.

--Timothy

Sure, I understand TimothyP. Looking forward to your next submittion .

--SamuelF

[vonHalenbach]

Hi Samuelf!
I have listened to the new file
http://www.samuelf.com/audio/Wesnoth01b.mp3
and find it quite good! I like the darkness in it. As others sugested, i agree with them that this is an underground theme. I am no musican, but i think those randomly playing drums should be playing less often and more quietly (those clacking sounds with which the musik begins and ends) or maybe should be replaced with another drumsound. The Flute in the foreground should be less pronounced too.
I like the medieval style of this musik.
Good work!

Gretings
Stefan