Trait mangement

YbeRn00b · Post by **YbeRn00b** » July 26th, 2006, 12:23 pm

Sometimes I wish there was an useful, yet simple, way to control witch units who get what traits.

The traits for your next recruit could be displayed in in the left parts of the "recruit" screen. The traits are completely random as before, but you could choose the for witch unit the recruit with the current trait should be. If intelligent and resilent are present you migh want a mage with good chances of survive until level 2, and hope for "quick" before you train that HI you orginally wanted. Selecting a unit in the recruit screen shows the unit with traits and bonuses.

As soon as you reqruit a unit with traits, two new is randomly selected from all the traits that your units can aquire, and will be applied to the next unit you train. If a unit gets an illegal trait (intelligent troll, dexterous rebel merfolk) they get a random one instead.

This will add no extra screens nor complicate gameplay, still add one strategic consideration to the game.

Dragon Master · Post by **Dragon Master** » July 26th, 2006, 12:55 pm

I don't like this, it removes some of the randomness of traits.

scott · Post by **scott** » July 26th, 2006, 12:59 pm

FleshPeeler · Post by **FleshPeeler** » July 26th, 2006, 1:22 pm

I wouldn't even assign a gold cost to forcing a trait onto a unit. Traits are meant to make the unit unique. Once you start treating it like a unit upgrade, the unit loses its originality.

YbeRn00b · Post by **YbeRn00b** » July 26th, 2006, 3:27 pm

I ask again, why not?

For campaigns many players "farm" good traits by fast charges and over-recruit on the first and often simple scenarioes. The more units, the less orginality and also personallity each get. Choosing what career your strong/intelligent recruit will take also makes the unit a bit "your own" all from the beginning. This even encourage players to mix the units in their fighting force even more, allocate traits to units they fit, instead of massing 2-3 types of units to get those traits they want in the elite squad.

For multiplayer originallity and personality is less important, but game balance indeed is. While instand randomness like each single battle and how you risk and react is what defines Wesnoth strategy and is a good thing, "static" randomness like traits and random maps usually isn't that good. I also cannot see how randomly aquired strong elven warriors is less balanced than planned ones. One might win close matches with great help of right traits both as they are now and as they could be. The benefit of doing it this way is that both players probably will have ok/good traits, instead anything from really bad to good, making a more fair base to later plan and let luck deside your single fights.

JW · Post by JW » July 26th, 2006, 3:39 pm

I have an idea: let's screw Undead because they only have 1 unit that has traits while all other factions have 4+

YbeRn00b · Post by **YbeRn00b** » July 26th, 2006, 11:42 pm

This is certainly not about screwing ud.

Website · Post by **Sapient** » July 26th, 2006, 11:49 pm

YbeRn00b wrote:This is certainly not about screwing ud.

https://gna.org/patch/?func=detailitem&item_id=554

YbeRn00b · Post by **YbeRn00b** » July 26th, 2006, 11:59 pm

I might misunderstand, Sapient, but this patch seems more like a "save/load" trait solution for single player, except the saving and loading...(?)

Website · Post by **Sapient** » July 27th, 2006, 12:03 am

YbeRn00b wrote:I might misunderstand, Sapient, but this patch seems more like a "save/load" trait solution for single player, except the saving and loading...(?)

Yes, that is correct.

Phoenyx · Post by **Phoenyx** » July 27th, 2006, 12:17 am

I know I haven't posted here, but I have been playing for a little while.

I think it also depends on a persons playstyle. I could see a great benefit in having the ability to do a little planning ahead on my recruiting based on traits. Or, even better, being able to pick from a small (like 3) list of traits based on the unit type. That would give the feeling of being able to look at my potential recruits and picking a certain one to "come off the bench". (I need a future white mage.. you, the quick one.. get in there..) If more traits are added, that would go a long way to prevent the "everyone is the same" feeling.

What I don't understand is how the random traits make a unit more or less unique then one you know a little before hand. The randomness is still there, but it is before a unit shows up on your doorstep. If anything, I feel its more unique to know beforehand then to recuit several just to make sure you get the trait you want.

Perhaps I do not pay enough attention to how traits effect units.

Post by **irrevenant** » July 27th, 2006, 9:04 am

An in-between idea I've been toying with (stolen shamelessly from HoMM) is to allow players to recruit from a small number of unique units that are available on the day.

So (eg.) you go to recruit an Elvish Archer and Wesnoth tells you there are 3 available: Dacyn (Quick, Strong), Harick (Strong, Intelligent) and Seth (Strong, Intelligent). You can choose which of the three to recruit. (Note that in the default idea trait combinations can repeat, though that could be changed).

As an alternate idea: it could be handled exactly as it is now only Wesnoth tells you what the traits of the available unit are before you buy it. The name and traits of the available unit would be randomised each turn (so if you're not happy with the available unit, you can wait and hope it's better next turn.

JW · Post by JW » July 27th, 2006, 9:31 am

irrevenant wrote:As an alternate idea: it could be handled exactly as it is now only Wesnoth tells you what the traits of the available unit are before you buy it. The name and traits of the available unit would be randomised each turn (so if you're not happy with the available unit, you can wait and hope it's better next turn.

Of all the possible permutations of giving the player more control of trait assignment, this idea is the most acceptable to me.

As of yet I'm unsure as to whether or not it's actually a good idea for the game.

Post by **Zhukov** » July 27th, 2006, 10:45 am

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Post by **turin** » July 27th, 2006, 3:03 pm

At first I thought the original proposal in this thread was to allow the player to choose exactly what traits his unit has. Now that I understand what it actually is... it makes even less sense.

It isn't like units are trained on-the-spot - bowmen are trained from age 10, and magi spend many years at school before becoming battle-proficient. From a conceptual viewpoint, it makes no sense...