Abilities and choices

[Elvish Orc Slayer]

Hey everyone. I got some ideas on how to improve Wesnoth.

1: A new ability for a unit not to use its Zone of Conrtol (ZoC). How many times has your wose, Ranger, and/or Avenger been secretly sneaking behind enemy lines to take out the leader when a small, little stray units walks by to capture a village and finds you ONLY because your level is about 0 and you have a ZoC. This idea, I think, should only be allowed to ambushers because what use would it have for a mage/grunt/elvish scout?

2: The abiliy for the enemy to chose which weapon to use when on defence. For example, in Hair to the Throne, Konrad can get the fire sword and thus can have 2 melee attacks. If a wose attacks Konrad, the attacking wose gets to chose which wepon Konrad will defend with. Obviously, the wose player will chose the normal sword as the fire sword is much more powerful and wose are weak v fire. But in a real battle or situation, the enemy would not be able to chose, and it would be up to the defender. I think, in such a situation, the defender should be able to chose the attack.

Sorry for any bad spelling

The Elvish Orc Slayer

[Soliton]

1: A new ability for a unit not to use its Zone of Conrtol (ZoC). How many times has your wose, Ranger, and/or Avenger been secretly sneaking behind enemy lines to take out the leader when a small, little stray units walks by to capture a village and finds you ONLY because your level is about 0 and you have a ZoC. This idea, I think, should only be allowed to ambushers because what use would it have for a mage/grunt/elvish scout?

ZoC has nothing to do with finding a hidden unit. Don't put your hidden unit next to a village, d'oh.

2: The abiliy for the enemy to chose which weapon to use when on defence. For example, in Hair to the Throne, Konrad can get the fire sword and thus can have 2 melee attacks. If a wose attacks Konrad, the attacking wose gets to chose which wepon Konrad will defend with.

Hmm?

[Elvish Orc Slayer]

really?? well my ranger was found in a forest by a grunt who was not even going to a village. i mean if a unit does go into the ZoC it stops, right?

also, like when a unit has 2 attacks of the same type (melee or ranged) when attacked, it cant chose which of the two to use. the attacking unit will chose.

get it??? i can provide screen shots if you want

The Elvish Orc Slayer

[Darth Fool]

Hey everyone. I got some ideas on how to improve Wesnoth.
2: The abiliy for the enemy to chose which weapon to use when on defence. For example, in Hair to the Throne, Konrad can get the fire sword and thus can have 2 melee attacks. If a wose attacks Konrad, the attacking wose gets to chose which wepon Konrad will defend with. Obviously, the wose player will chose the normal sword as the fire sword is much more powerful and wose are weak v fire. But in a real battle or situation, the enemy would not be able to chose, and it would be up to the defender. I think, in such a situation, the defender should be able to chose the attack.

The attacker does not get to choose the defenders choice of weapon, he only gets to choose the range at which combat takes place. For a given range, the computer chooses the "best" weapon for the defensive unit at that range. "best" may not be exactly what you consider best, but that usually means that either the options are quite similar, or the situation is strange. An example of the latter case is the swarming of high level units who can continually kill its attackers on the same hex.

In any case, this will not happen, because it is a basic tenent of wesnoth game design that there is no interaction with a player when it is not their turn.

Isn't this an FPI? If not, it should be.

[zookeeper]

Hey everyone. I got some ideas on how to improve Wesnoth.
2: The abiliy for the enemy to chose which weapon to use when on defence. For example, in Hair to the Throne, Konrad can get the fire sword and thus can have 2 melee attacks. If a wose attacks Konrad, the attacking wose gets to chose which wepon Konrad will defend with. Obviously, the wose player will chose the normal sword as the fire sword is much more powerful and wose are weak v fire. But in a real battle or situation, the enemy would not be able to chose, and it would be up to the defender. I think, in such a situation, the defender should be able to chose the attack.

The attacker does not get to choose the defenders choice of weapon, he only gets to choose the range at which combat takes place. For a given range, the computer chooses the "best" weapon for the defensive unit at that range. "best" may not be exactly what you consider best, but that usually means that either the options are quite similar, or the situation is strange. An example of the latter case is the swarming of high level units who can continually kill its attackers on the same hex.

I think you understood the proposal wrong. He is proposing an ability that let's you, as the attacker, choose what weapon the defender will use when you initiate combat. Not that it would be very useful, since 90% of units don't have more than one attack of a given range.

EDIT: Well, actually, it seems that in the first sentence he's proposing what you understood, and in the rest what I understood. Go figure.

[Soliton]

really?? well my ranger was found in a forest by a grunt who was not even going to a village.

So where does that suggest it has anything to do with ZoC?

i mean if a unit does go into the ZoC it stops, right?

Yes.

also, like when a unit has 2 attacks of the same type (melee or ranged) when attacked, it cant chose which of the two to use. the attacking unit will chose.

No, it's automatically chosen.

[zookeeper]

Ambush has everything to do with ZoC. The way you discover an ambusher is by walking into his ZoC. If he had no ZoC, then you should be able to brush past him without triggering the ambush. No idea whether it works like that with lvl 0 ambushers, probably not.

[Viliam]

1) A unit with ambush is discovered when enemy randomly steps on the adjacent hex. The fact that the adjacent hexes are also ZOC, is just a coincidence.
Edit: OK, maybe I was wrong about this...

2) Attacking unit chooses the range of attack. Imagine a situation like this: if you start shooting at someone from distance, they cannot immediately hit you with sword, but if they have a bow, they can shoot back. If you hit someone with a sword, they cannot start shooting at you, but if they have sword in hand, they can hit you back. That's the "explanation" of the system. (However, "Wesnoth is not realistic". This is just a help to understand and remember the game rule.)

A completely different rule is that when you close attack someone who has 2 swords, a computer chooses instead of them which of the swords will be used in defence. This rule exists only to prevent user interaction with computer during someone else's turn. And it is used rarely, because most units do not have two different attacks of the same range. The reason is that you can go away from the multiplayer game while others play; and they will not have to wait for your decision.

[Soliton]

Ambush has everything to do with ZoC. The way you discover an ambusher is by walking into his ZoC. If he had no ZoC, then you should be able to brush past him without triggering the ambush. No idea whether it works like that with lvl 0 ambushers, probably not.

It looks like your idea of ambush has nothing to do with the way the game works then. Hidden units are detected when you stand/move next to them AFAICT, nothing more nothing less.

[zookeeper]

Ambush has everything to do with ZoC. The way you discover an ambusher is by walking into his ZoC. If he had no ZoC, then you should be able to brush past him without triggering the ambush. No idea whether it works like that with lvl 0 ambushers, probably not.

It looks like your idea of ambush has nothing to do with the way the game works then. Hidden units are detected when you stand/move next to them AFAICT, nothing more nothing less.

You can't trigger an ambush without stepping on the ambusher's ZoC, so isn't it pretty intuitive to associate how ambush works with ZoC? Whether they're handled differently by the game internally has nothing to do with it.

[Elvish_Pillager]

I sense the presence of duplicate code...

Level 0 invisible units cause move loss when ambushing.

[Noyga]

There is already a 'zoc' setting (1.1.x only) to enable/disable the zoc for a unit.
I don't know if it affect ambushing through.
Btw, no revealing ambushed units next to you might cause problems, since there cannot be 2 units at the same hex.

[zookeeper]

Btw, no revealing ambushed units next to you might cause problems, since there cannot be 2 units at the same hex.

What do units next to each other have to do with there being two units in the same hex?

[Noyga]

You can move to every hexes next to you where you see no units, except if the terrain does not allow it.

[Soliton]

It looks like your idea of ambush has nothing to do with the way the game works then. Hidden units are detected when you stand/move next to them AFAICT, nothing more nothing less.

You can't trigger an ambush without stepping on the ambusher's ZoC, so isn't it pretty intuitive to associate how ambush works with ZoC?

I'll repeat what Villiam said: "A unit with ambush is discovered when an enemy randomly steps on the adjacent hex. The fact that the adjacent hexes are also ZOC, is just a coincidence."
Why would you not discover a hidden unit that is level 0 or has no ZoC for other reasons? That would be quite unintuitive to me.

Whether they're handled differently by the game internally has nothing to do with it.

Incidenatally I was only going by my observations and my understanding of the distinct (for me anyway) concepts (hide and ZoC) involved.