Free Goblins (Dev Stage: Statting, Coding-then Animating)

[JW]

I doubt goblins or orcs really understand genetics anyway. Same thing with Celestials.

BTW, I am generally against having democracy in fantasy games.

Are you for anything turin?

[Zhukov]

Are you for anything turin?

What a silly question! Of course turin is for some things, many things in fact. The only requirement is that these things be his idea, because everyone knows that all creations spawned by the almightly visionary intellect of turin far outshine any of the pitiful offerings that us mere humans can come up with.

Aaaaaaanyway, sarcasm aside, my thoughts on irrevenant's idea: Basically, I like it. Concept is pretty solid, unit ideas sound alright, potential for a campaign. I must admit that the idea of Goblin democracy seems...awkward. I won't go into realism reasons and such. However if it were presented in a semi-humerous way I reckon it could work just fine.

I'm sorry to hear you won't be pursuing this, although I sympathise with your decision.

[Alks]

I must admit that the idea of Goblin democracy seems...awkward. y to hear you won't be pursuing this, although I sympathise with your decision.

What about technocratic attitudes?
The wittiest have most to say. Witties are da bosses, everyone should listen to.

[irrevenant]

Aaaaaaanyway, sarcasm aside, my thoughts on irrevenant's idea: Basically, I like it. Concept is pretty solid, unit ideas sound alright, potential for a campaign. I must admit that the idea of Goblin democracy seems...awkward. I won't go into realism reasons and such. However if it were presented in a semi-humorous way I reckon it could work just fine.

Hmm. I was thinking of playing it mostly serious, so it would be useful to hear your realism concerns.

I'm sorry to hear you won't be pursuing this, although I sympathise with your decision.

I'm generally short of time these days and the project looks seriously overwhelming (esp. given that my drawing skills are basic at best and I have zero WML skills). I also have a bad habit of being easily distracted by the next shiny .

Still, given the positive reception that the idea has received I'm very tempted to give it a punt. At the very least, I should learn a lot from the attempt...

[Jester]

Best thing I like about this is that it adds variety in the orcish specie...
(See Race Discussion thread)

I can totally see goblind being technocratic, think that woulkd suit them best.

[Steelclad Brian]

I really love this idea and I hope you follow it through. I'd love to see a faction of mostly level zero units with poor combat stats, but lots of weird special abilities. Because they are level zero they would have poor presence on the battlefield, but you could give them stealth abilities, poison, high mobility. They would also have low upkeep with mostly level 0 units.

You should make it so the entire faction has no zone of control, even the level 1+ upgraded units. Maybe add one single slow moving unit with a ZoC if you feel you need it, like a pair of goblins hiding behind a mobile bulwark armed with spears.

[Alks]

. I'd love to see a faction of mostly level zero units with poor combat stats, but lots of weird special abilities. Because they are level zero they would have poor presence on the battlefield, but you could give them stealth abilities, poison, high mobility.

Goblins should have teleport unit!

[turin]

[OT]

What a silly question! Of course turin is for some things, many things in fact. The only requirement is that these things be his idea, because everyone knows that all creations spawned by the almightly visionary intellect of turin far outshine any of the pitiful offerings that us mere humans can come up with.

Eh? Actually, I have yet to come up with a faction idea and propose it. All the factions in the Imperial Era were designed by someone else.

The only rule is that I could have come up with it. Meaning, it has to be something that I would not object to on a conceptual level... that rules out most suggestions.
[/OT]

All unit not having ZoC? An interesting idea. It would probably make all of the units underpowered, though.

[irrevenant]

You should make it so the entire faction has no zone of control, even the level 1+ upgraded units. Maybe add one single slow moving unit with a ZoC if you feel you need it, like a pair of goblins hiding behind a mobile bulwark armed with spears.

The problem with doing that is that it's a downgrade from current L1 goblin capabilities with no clear reason for it. It'd be an interesting idea with a new race that had a reason for it, but to change an existing race in that way would just confuse the player.

I like the mobile bulwark idea though. The Free Goblins are somewhat cowardly by Orc standards (since they consider individual lives to have inherent value and prefer to avoid throwing them away if possible).

[turin]

It sounds rather impossible to me to have a faction with level 0s that also prefers to avoid throwing lives away. That's the (conceptual) reason for why peasants are not recruitable in MP - although they might benefit the Loyalist armies, the Loyalists do not want to throw away the peasants' lives. They only do that when they have no other choice - in scenarios where the humans are cornered and cannot escape. Right now the only factions with level 0 units are those that don't care about the individual. (Orcs and undead pop into mind, as do the Lavinians in the IE).

[Cuyo Quiz]

The fact that they don't want to waste lives can be easily regarded by the first post's background. They feel a lot like those pesky tribes in Diablo2.

With this into account, they hold highly defensive (low risk) tactics and their soldiers use poison, camouflage, ranged weapons, etc. An army filled with tricks and chaotic alignment could mean lots of headaches, even if some of their units carry no ZoC.

However, they may lack too much in ZoC and proper fighters. I would advise they also hold a mobile guard of their own riders (choose another animal they could ride if you want), devoted to protect their newborn society and leaders. This lvl1 (if the only existing in the faction) should be great scouts and village holders, with the other expecting the right time to take out enemies form the safest terrain possible.

Think Undead, but their Ghould rides an animal and their armies have varying abilities and good defenses instead of great resistances and strong attacks. Think that it could work?.

[turin]

The fact that they don't want to waste lives can be easily regarded by the first post's background. They feel a lot like those pesky tribes in Diablo2.

Never played Diablo2... but, my point is that gameplay-wise, level 0s usually mean lots of units, lots of deaths. I guess you could try to make that not true, but it will be hard.

[Flametrooper]

They need something that can soak up damage, or at least take a few hits before dieing. Maybe a Hobgoblin? (As far as I understand, from most fantasy games, size is something like goblin<hobgoblin<orc. So hobgoblins might be perhaps as strong and tough as an elf or human, which is weaker than an orc, but it would still be stronger than a goblin. And more expensive.)

[turin]

They need something that can soak up damage, or at least take a few hits before dieing. Maybe a Hobgoblin? (As far as I understand, from most fantasy games, size is something like goblin<hobgoblin<orc. So hobgoblins might be perhaps as strong and tough as an elf or human, which is weaker than an orc, but it would still be stronger than a goblin. And more expensive.)

Amusingly, hobgoblins were originally smaller and weaker than goblins. Read for yourself.

[Dragon Master]

You realize every reference in the Wiki says that hobgoblins are stronger, tougher goblins, right Turin?