Opposite of Illuminate - but not Deluminate! 1.read! 2.post!

[kshinji]

I've seen next stupid thread about dellumination... and...

i came up with idea of opposite of illuminate, but not just stupid, childish, pokemonish reversing of illuminate.

It would be high-lvl ( 3 ) attack ability "curse". It would be uncurable, attack with it shouldnt be very damagive, but should have good chance to hit at least once.

Good or neutral unit marked as 'cursed', fights as if it was good unit at night. ( -25% to damage) despite of real daytime. Could interact with illumination, making this unit fight as it was afternoon if he is in illuminated tile.

What do you think?

[Xan]

Too complicated.

[Viliam]

The problem is that only lawful units are harmed when cursed. Neutral units are not influenced by curse; and for chaotic it would be a BONUS!

(Imagine Orcs vs Undead... when Undead mage curses Orcs, they gain advantage.)

[kshinji]

I have forseen it. To be clea:

- chaotic units are immune to curse
- cursed unit gets -25% to damage
- daytime doesnt apply to cursed unit
- probably field with cursed unit should be delluminated

It works as if cursed unit started being lawful, and there was always night for him.

[Silence of Echo]

Too complicated.

I must agree. There are more chaotic units units then there are lawful units so the illumination is a needed trait.
Adding a "curse" ability would lead to "trait" wars. plus, the only unit with illuminate is mage of light, which is pretty weak to living units and is lv. 3.

but finally, its just too complicated.

[kshinji]

How can you say its complicated - point it out, cause it isnt that obvious.

[Dragon Master]

I've seen next stupid thread about dellumination... and...

i came up with idea of opposite of illuminate, but not just stupid, childish, pokemonish reversing of illuminate.

It would be high-lvl ( 3 ) attack ability "curse". It would be uncurable, attack with it shouldnt be very damagive, but should have good chance to hit at least once.

So it isn't the opposite of illuminate, it's an attack ability. Illuminate is what I like to call a "static ability" as in it's always active. Illuminate makes units adjacent to the illuminater fight as if it were day. Your "curse" is like poison or slow in it weakens a unit hit with this attack.

[kshinji]

Its not eaxact opposite to of Illuminate because it would make this game candy.

Notice:

Illuminate is support ability.
Curse is... curse ability. (anti-support)

Illuminate allows good unit to fight as if it was better time of day.
Curse makes lawful and neutral units fight worse, and time of day doesnt affect lawful units anymore.

Illuminate can affect many units at one time, but only as long as they stay near mage. Also efficience depends on how your frontline is curved etc.
Curse can only be applied to one unit a turn, but it works for the rest of the game, without possiblity of being cured.

Illuminate is powerful lawful ablity.
Curse could be powerful chaotic ability.

PS It could be renamed to Delluminate, cause it works covering enemy unit with Darkness. Couldalso be called Darkness or whatever.

PS2 It could also be cured, and then it could be even lvl 1 or 2 ability but weaker. And it would be next symetry to Illuminate:

Illuminate is powerful lawful ability of best units.
Delluminete is common chaotic ability of some "support" units. ( Witches?)


Conclusion: Ice is freezed water, but Fire isnt boiled water. Curse isnt candy opposition of Illuminate. Its climateful opposition.

[Silence of Echo]

How can you say its complicated - point it out, cause it isnt that obvious.

If you end up with battles combining mages of light + "witches" or whatever units would use this ability, the specific time of day for the units on the frontline would be extremely skewed. Plus, illuminate is a passive ability-at any one time it can only affect the units around it and if you are in a battle line, that is usually only 2-3 units. If this curse ability is an attack, it would be an active threat to lawful units.

What would happen if a cursed unit is under the support of a white mage? The ability of illuminate is used to give lawful units a chance agains undead (resistant to weapons) at night. a cursed unit would be virtually useless against anything more than a bat.

[kshinji]

Well, if cursed/darkened unit is represented by being delluminateds on the screen, your problem is splitten.

For developers it is problem to decide how should those things interact. Maybe they should, and maybe not. Its to be discussed. And if we decide that illuminate counters darkness, it should be graphically represented.

For player, it will be obvious (at least after seeing it for the first time). If his unit is illuminated, it means it fights better. If its delluminated, it means it foghts worse. Not complictaed, right?


Another thing is dependant on if we decide that darkness/curse should be curable and used by lvl 2 units or uncurable and used by lvl 3 units. If it first thing, then unit just have to be healed by White Mage, who you can obtain at thesame time, when undead obtains his "Darknesser". In campaigns even faster. And if its for 3rds, then it isnt greatly unbalancing, just as much, as every 3rd level unit.

[Silence of Echo]

(Random idea) What about adding a new attack type dubbed "unholy".
it would be effective against some of the more annoying lawful units.
------------------------------
in response, maybe make it that a cursed unit could be healed but it cannot attack immediately after being healed (and removing the curse would take the place of healing hp)

[Dragon Master]

Here's an Idea! Let's keep things the way they are! Lawful units are not in high supply and don't need to be beaten on any more then they are. Illuminate makes up for their small numbers and is just about the only bonus they get against Chaotic besides holy attacks. Lawful units may be able to slaughter Undead and Orcs in the day, but Orcs and Undead have very slippery units that are quite capable of outrunning humans until nightfall. There is no reason to make Chaotic better


In all honesty this idea is fine in a campaign

[Soliton]

Lawful units are not in high supply and don't need to be beaten on any more then they are.

Code: Select all

grep -r alignment=lawful data/units | grep -v '\.svn' | wc -l
67
grep -r alignment=chaotic data/units | grep -v '\.svn' | wc -l
66

In all honesty this idea is fine in a campaign

Nevertheless I share your conclusion.

You need a unit to get that weapon special anyway. Until then it's all just empty talk.

[Silence of Echo]

There are more chaotic units units then there are lawful units so the illumination is a needed trait.
Adding a "curse" ability would lead to "trait" wars. plus, the only unit with illuminate is mage of light, which is pretty weak to living units and is lv. 3.

Here i must concur with Dragon master (and myself).

If you end up with battles combining mages of light + "witches" or whatever units would use this ability, the specific time of day for the units on the frontline would be extremely skewed. Plus, illuminate is a passive ability-at any one time it can only affect the units around it and if you are in a battle line, that is usually only 2-3 units. If this curse ability is an attack, it would be an active threat to lawful units.

What would happen if a cursed unit is under the support of a white mage? The ability of illuminate is used to give lawful units a chance agains undead (resistant to weapons) at night. a cursed unit would be virtually useless against anything more than a bat.

Once again, i quote myself.......

[JW]

(Random idea) What about adding a new attack type dubbed "unholy".
it would be effective against some of the more annoying lawful units.

This is FPI if we're talking Default era. There will be a Shadow damage type in the Era of Myths.