Forum restructuring - discussion

Post by **Yogibear** » February 19th, 2006, 8:30 am

drachefly wrote:Of course, maybe another idea would be to revoke the rule on being negative towards ideas. Maybe people would be a bit more self-critical before putting things forth.

To me this rule makes some sense.

There is a very thin border between criticising an idea and criticising the person behind it. Many forum participants are not capable to distinguish enough between those two.
Not to mention that criticising often comes along with rather rude wording.

Unless we don't find a moderator for an open idea forum, it will fail its purpose. It will just be treated like off topic. And i don't see a dev that is willing to invest in searching for those very few good ideas there. So maybe one of the more experienced users is willing to take over this task?
No sarcasm here, this is a serious question.

JW · Post by JW » February 19th, 2006, 9:49 am

Yogi Bear wrote: Unless we don't find a moderator for an open idea forum, it will fail its purpose. It will just be treated like off topic. And i don't see a dev that is willing to invest in searching for those very few good ideas there. So maybe one of the more experienced users is willing to take over this task?
No sarcasm here, this is a serious question.

I take a look at pretty much all the new ideas. I like to think I'm quite polite when I inform (most of) their creators that they aren't good for Wesnoth. So, I guess I could fit that role.

im the one you think of · February 19th, 2006, 10:27 am

Yogi Bear wrote:
So maybe one of the more experienced users is willing to take over this task?

hmm i dont think i fit the experienced part as i dont make many posts, but id like to do it as well, i do read as many posts as i can. I know the FPI and BWH so that shouldnt be a problem, i also like to think that i can offer constructive criticism where apporpriate.

hmm, this sounds way too much like a job application

Tomsik · Post by **Tomsik** » February 19th, 2006, 10:48 am

Thing that everyone know wrote:The worst way of trying to become moderator is asking for it, it never works.

-> What i might be working on · Post by **Eleazar** » February 19th, 2006, 2:09 pm

jonadab wrote:...and I can definitely understand making them a by-invitation thing. This allows all of us to *read* the developers' discussions amongst themselves; whereas, otherwise, they might tend to go to IRC or whatnot instead and leave us all in the dark, which would be worse.

The old situation is worse for the Devs as well. It takes quite a lot of work too keep up with stuff on the chaotic IRC dev-channel. Not all devs can invest that amount of time just to know what going on.

im the one you think of · February 19th, 2006, 4:04 pm

Tomsik wrote:
Thing that everyone know wrote:The worst way of trying to become moderator is asking for it, it never works.

this is moderator! i thought it was just reporting to the devs good ideas

Disto · Post by **Disto** » February 19th, 2006, 5:08 pm

No, moderators make sure people such as Assasin can't spam topics up with meaningless stuff or people posting innapropriate stuff are removed.

Elestel · Post by **Elestel** » February 19th, 2006, 5:23 pm

Sorry, but I'm still thinking is not a good idea... We will see when the User's forum will be filled... (you imagine?) with a lot of ideas from people don't know another site to put them...
I think the best option is a open forum for brainstorming ideas and other restristed (if you want) for the good and advanced ideas

Disto · Post by **Disto** » February 19th, 2006, 5:27 pm

Because this is a transition between the restructering this isn't how it'll end up, they are going through the ideas forum (i believe) and removing repeated ideas etc. There will be a ideas forum for new people and i believe if they can find some moderators with enough time and energy that they'll move better ideas on to the restricted forum.

Tux2B · Post by **Tux2B** » February 19th, 2006, 6:53 pm

Elestel wrote:Sorry, but I'm still thinking is not a good idea... We will see when the User's forum will be filled... (you imagine?) with a lot of ideas from people don't know another site to put them...
I think the best option is a open forum for brainstorming ideas and other restristed (if you want) for the good and advanced ideas

That's what I proposed in the ideas forum, but we'll just see how it'll end before complaining, so we are sure that we have good reasons to complain.

Post by **turin** » February 19th, 2006, 10:10 pm

If the ideas forum remains closed, we should definitely remove the no-negative-criticism rule. The whole point of the rule, as I understand it, is to "be nice" to new members who propose stupid ideas. The question of whether an open ideas forum is a good idea or not, I don't know the answer to. I tend to think no. There should at least be a week's waiting period or something before you can post in the ideas forum; or maybe you need 15 posts before you can (I've seen something like that on other forums)...

Yogi Bear wrote:There is a very thin border between criticising an idea and criticising the person behind it. Many forum participants are not capable to distinguish enough between those two.
Not to mention that criticising often comes along with rather rude wording.

If there ends up being an open ideas forum, I still think the rule should be removed. Having a "be polite" rule, fine. Moderating it so that personal attacks are not allowed, fine. But having no criticism at all is IMHO a horrible solution. It frustrates people who read the forum who recognize an idea that won't ever be accepted, but can't say anything; it gives new members who propose stupid ideas that aren't criticized a sense of "hey, this is a good idea" when it really is not; and it makes moderating the ideas forum seem really arbitrary, since the difference between an FPI and a mere bad idea is really unclear, especially for some of the "variants" upon FPIs...

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » February 19th, 2006, 10:15 pm

Tomsik wrote:
Thing that everyone know wrote:The worst way of trying to become moderator is asking for it, it never works.

so how would whoever is choosing know who was interested? People would need to find very subtle ways of hinting at it, but never actually asking for it. (probably quite hard)

SmokemJags · Post by **SmokemJags** » February 19th, 2006, 10:16 pm

Unless we don't find a moderator for an open idea forum, it will fail its purpose. It will just be treated like off topic.

I sort of recall having a thread of mine, which mentioned getting someone to moderate an open forum (or as I said, filter it), being 'off topic'ed. Fancy that.

There should at least be a week's waiting period or something before you can post in the ideas forum; or maybe you need 15 posts before you can (I've seen something like that on other forums)...

I'd have to recommend a waiting period over a post limit. Perhaps even after this waiting period, someone has to grant such a user access instead of having it be an automatic thing. I mean, I can rack up a ridiculous amount of posts on a forum as active as this without even having to resort to an ounce of useless spamming.

Just thought I'd add...

The worst way of trying to become moderator is asking for it, it never works.

=

"A true leader does not seek power, it is thrust upon them."

Form a committee of developers and have them thrust that power upon members of the forum they feel are up to the task. It then falls on that person to accept the position or not. Possible idea.

unsung · Post by **unsung** » February 21st, 2006, 2:32 pm

drachefly wrote:Of course, maybe another idea would be to revoke the rule on being negative towards ideas. Maybe people would be a bit more self-critical before putting things forth.

I agree, 100%.
I don't think I should be able to go "no, this idea is stupid, you are [censored], go away" but I think people being 'nice' is non-consturctive, becuase people will figure it means that people don't completely hate the idea and that it isn't stupid, which encouurages them.

Like when someone said the level up trees where illogical, and that assasins should level to crossbowmen, and such.... perfect example. If someone bluntly said: no, this makes no sense, and is stupid, it would get the point across.

Flamewars would be bad of course, but the only other eason I can think of for this rule is to prevent new people from being run of the forum, but I ddoubt many of them are going to sta around long anyway....

Yeah, turin would have a field day. And so would I.

MadMax · Post by **MadMax** » February 22nd, 2006, 12:05 am

I just noticed the "trusted user" subtitle placed under the names of trusted users, and I disagree. IMO, it seems to rub in that we are trusted users and they are not. I can understand subtitles for developers and moderators, because these people have a special role on the forum. Trusted users are simply users who have earned the moderators' trust and can post in restricted forums.