Imperial Multiplayer Era - version 0.17 released

[turin]

I think the lvl1 should not have the shield. If you want more differentation you could try putting a carcaj on the waist, just like persians did.

A carcaj... what is that? I'm guessing it is a spanish word, since a search for it on google only turned up spanish websites.

The thing is, the level 1 does need something to protect himself and make it logical for him to have steadfast. I'm changing it into a wooden shield, so he doesn't look as impressive, but I do think he needs to keep the shield...

[unsung]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavise


Shield used by crossbow men.

Good alternative to a standard shield I think.

Plus, he wouldn't hav etp hold it, which is impossible with a bow.

[Temuchin Khan]

Well, the idea behind the name "siege archer" was, with marksman he will be rather powerful against fortresses. He goes up to the castle and starts shooting at it, while the units inside the fortress, even though they attack him, can't do much damage to him. So, I think I prefer the name Siege Archer to Veteran Archer, because it has more flavor to it. Veteran Archer is rather generic.

The Romans generally used archers as light troops, however, not as heavy troops. Perhaps the regular archer line should be more like the regular light troops, but Lavinian citizens rather than auxiliaries. And perhaps they should not have steadfast. In fact, I suspect that it would be more historical for the main archer line to have elusivefoot defense and resistances but low damage and for the Field Ballista branch to have smallfoot defense and resistances but high damage.

Here's another idea for the level 2 archer:

Code: Select all

Archer -- high defense, low damage, average movement, elusivefoot
       -> Fleet Archer -> Sagittarius -- better movement, more reps, marksman
       -> Field Ballista -> Arcuballistarius -- higher damage, but no longer elusivefoot

[turin]

Hm... true, it is not perfectly historically accurate, but I don't think that is too big a problem. IMHO, the unit works better with the rest of the faction, and is more original, if is a pavise-using, poor-defence, high-resistance unit.


I'll change it if you insist, but I like the Siege Archer idea a lot. Sure, it isn't perfectly Roman (based somewhat on a medieval invention, after all), but the Lavinians don't need to be direct copies of the Romans.

[unsung]

Hm... true, it is not perfectly historically accurate, but I don't think that is too big a problem. IMHO, the unit works better with the rest of the faction, and is more original, if is a pavise-using, poor-defence, high-resistance unit.

I think it would fit more with the playing style of them as well.

plus, they already have about 7 light units, including two ranged.

Perhaps it could start as a light archer, then branch to either a seige archer or temuchins idea of a lighter archer with no shield?


Either way, they'd need a repectable resistance to pierce- Roman armor was effective against bolt shooters, which would kill a man from 500 feet with ease and pin archers to trees. and, he has a pavise.

A bad meele would balance it out, since a pavise wasn't as usefull in this situation AFAIK.

And rather than lavinians, you could make any light archers desert peoples- One group slaughter thousands of legionares with composite (or compound) bows, puching right through the tetudoformations, pinning their hands to their shields.

[Temuchin Khan]

Hm... true, it is not perfectly historically accurate, but I don't think that is too big a problem. IMHO, the unit works better with the rest of the faction, and is more original, if is a pavise-using, poor-defence, high-resistance unit.

I'll change it if you insist, but I like the Siege Archer idea a lot. Sure, it isn't perfectly Roman (based somewhat on a medieval invention, after all), but the Lavinians don't need to be direct copies of the Romans.

Creativity is fine. Let there be Siege Archers!

Code: Select all

Archer -- high defense, low damage, average movement, elusivefoot 
       -> Siege Archer -> Sagittarius -- better movement, more reps, marksman 
       -> Field Ballista -> Arcuballistarius -- higher damage, but no longer elusivefoot 

[turin]

Archer -> Siege Archer -> Sagittarius:

[Temuchin Khan]

I like the images, but it's hard to tell where the bow of the Sagittarius is.

[turin]

I like the images, but it's hard to tell where the bow of the Sagittarius is.

I know. I spent about an hour trying to get it the bow to look decent, and I think I still failed. I just can't find a color that shows up well against the red and golden armor.

[Temuchin Khan]

I like the images, but it's hard to tell where the bow of the Sagittarius is.

I know. I spent about an hour trying to get it the bow to look decent, and I think I still failed. I just can't find a color that shows up well against the red and golden armor. :(

Well, maybe he should continue to have greyish armor then. It's a shame, because the red and gold looks great, but it seems odd for an archer to not have a bow.

[turin]

This better?


PS: If you could draw up stats for these, based on my suggestions, that would help a lot. Otherwise, I'll do it and add these guys to the next version.

[Cuyo Quiz]

I wonder... is anyone interested in the Polybolos. It was almost as fast as a medieval archer, and it seems that with a medium-sized one only one man would be necessary to do the job.

See also Ballista for some visual help.

[specops]

Archer:
HP: 28
MP: 5
Same movement as Legionnaire
XP: 42
Steadfast
Weapons:
Melee: Gladius, Short 3-3, blade
Ranged: Bow, 7-3, pierce
Resistances:
Blade: 20
Pierce: 10
Impact: 10
Fire: -10
Cold: -20
Holy: 20

Their relatively low HP and armor will be offset by a 7-3 pierce attack and steadfast on defence. On defence, they'll have the equivalent of 46 HP against blade and 35 against pierce and impact—certainly not out of the level 1 norms.

Seige Archer:
HP: 43
MP: 6
Same movement type as Legionnaire
XP: 68
Steadfast
Weapons:
Melee: Gladius, Short 4-3, blade
Ranged: Bow, 9-3, fire, marksman
Resistances:
Blade: 30
Pierce: 20
Impact: 10
Fire: 0
Cold: -10
Holy: 20

Resistances get better with a bigger shield. Whee.

Sagittarius (or whatever it is)
HP: 54
MP: 6
Same movement type as Legionnaire
XP: -
Steadfast
Weapons:
Melee: Gladius, Short 6-3, blade
Ranged: Bow, 13-3, fire, marksman
Resistances:
Blade: 40
Pierce: 30
Impact: 20
Fire: 0
Cold: -10
Holy: 20

Pretty in line with the Legionnaire mentality: they're not going to do more than 40 damage, but their resistances and defence on the grasslands that often surround castles will make them pretty hard to dislodge/stop from beseiging the occupants. Feel free to rip the stats to shreds.

[Temuchin Khan]

This better?

Somewhat, but now it's counter-intuitive, in that he seems to be holding both the bow and the shield with the same hand.

What if he held the bow over his head?

PS: If you could draw up stats for these, based on my suggestions, that would help a lot. Otherwise, I'll do it and add these guys to the next version.

specops got there first.

I wonder... is anyone interested in the Polybolos. It was almost as fast as a medieval archer, and it seems that with a medium-sized one only one man would be necessary to do the job.

See also Ballista for some visual help.

I like the idea, but I was under the impression that the Polybolos was not mobile enough to be used in the field and had to set up in a defensive emplacement. This would indicate that it crosses the line into siege engines, which we all know are not Wesnothian.

The Field Ballista is right on the edge, given that the Romans did have one-shot catapults that were mobile enough to be used in the field, so it would still be acceptable.

[Thrawn]

The point of this shield is that it is not held (I thought). Through you could keep the pretty armour if he held the bow in the other hand.

I can't really discern the ridge that should be on the shield--I kind of see it in the archer, but then it dissapears in the others.