2p - Death Island, asymmetrical

Website · Post by **Sapient** » November 29th, 2005, 6:02 am

Ok, the story behind this map. My sister Michelle (who has never played Wesnoth) came over, and I had this idea to let her go crazy with the map editor. Then my plan was to take this resulting map and balance it until it strategically fair to both sides.

I know a lot of you out there are saying: why not make it symmetrical? Answer is, there are already a lot of symmetrical maps out there, and if that's your thing, then fine. I would just like to point out that there are no real world countries where the map is symmetrical.

Most people take one look at this map and think player one has a huge advantage, but first looks can be deceiving. Actually, both sides have their own advantages, and just because player one can rush into the central fortification doesn't give him the upper hand. Breaking through defenses is a constant threat, but when done, it leaves the invader exposed. The result is a nice strategic battle with a constant sense of tension.

The reccommended setting is Great War era. Side one are the forces of darkness who occupy death island; side two are invading crusaders. Both sides should start out with a modest 100 gold and Fog of War.

King Albrecht · Post by **King Albrecht** » November 29th, 2005, 12:16 pm

Which side is player 1?

If this is all that the map is (maybe there's something the picture doesn't show?), there's no way that it's balanced.

King Albrecht · Post by **King Albrecht** » November 29th, 2005, 1:09 pm

Don't get me wrong though. I like the look of it.

Website · Post by **Sapient** » November 29th, 2005, 11:49 pm

Of course there is more to the map. That is just a small screencap. You should download the file to your Wesnoth\userdata\editor\maps directory, then you can open it with editor.exe or a Multiplayer campaign.

And, I am glad you like the look of it, thanks.

toms · Post by **toms** » November 30th, 2005, 3:16 pm

I want to see the first assymetrical duel-map!

Post by **Doc Paterson** » November 30th, 2005, 8:16 pm

toms wrote:I want to see the first assymetrical duel-map!

Iyieyie.

There are ten 1v1s ("duel maps") included with the game, and all of them are asymmetrical.

Website · Post by **Sapient** » November 30th, 2005, 9:01 pm

Iyieyie.

There are ten 1v1s ("duel maps") included with the game, and all of them are asymmetrical.

True, and I have downloaded many others from our esteemed Drake Cartographer.

Post by **Doc Paterson** » November 30th, 2005, 9:23 pm

Sapient wrote:
Iyieyie.

There are ten 1v1s ("duel maps") included with the game, and all of them are asymmetrical.
True, and I have downloaded many others from our esteemed Drake Cartographer.

A good deal of my old material was unbalanced; just keep that in mind.

Post by **Doc Paterson** » November 30th, 2005, 9:30 pm

As for this map- I really do admire its spirit and distinctiveness, but in almost all matchups imagineable, P2 will have an impossible time of things. I think you're overlooking player 1's extra turn of movement, which allows them to reach or block off (provided you're using the right units) 90 percent of the villages on the map before P2 can secure them.

I can see how it would be fun though to play as player 2, attacking a computer opponent. The computer wouldn't understand the movement/spacing advantage of the village setup, and would just rush in for the attack.

If you really want to focus on making this map balanced for all factional matchups, and for the second player, PM me, and we can discuss it.

Website · Post by **Sapient** » December 6th, 2005, 4:40 am

I think you're overlooking player 1's extra turn of movement, which allows them to reach or block off (provided you're using the right units) 90 percent of the villages on the map before P2 can secure them.

I deliberately recommend 100 starting gold to prevent the "first turn swarm" effect. For example, if player one to recruits all scouters on the first turn it would be completely suicidal. Player two can react by recruiting the appropriate units to exploit your decision, and player one wouldn't have enough gold left to repel the invading crusaders.

Post by **Doc Paterson** » December 6th, 2005, 11:53 am

Sapient wrote:
I think you're overlooking player 1's extra turn of movement, which allows them to reach or block off (provided you're using the right units) 90 percent of the villages on the map before P2 can secure them.
I deliberately recommend 100 starting gold to prevent the "first turn swarm" effect. For example, if player one to recruits all scouters on the first turn it would be completely suicidal. Player two can react by recruiting the appropriate units to exploit your decision, and player one wouldn't have enough gold left to repel the invading crusaders.

If only it were so simple. (By the way, 100 G is standard, and is assumed). Player one doesn't have the space to effectively clear Player 2 off of the northern villages once they've been secured. Even if they could do heavy damage to them (highly unlikely), player one can swap those units out and maintain the lock, using their MASSIVE economic advantage to drain the life out of player 2. If you really don't believe me, I'll show you.

Website · Post by **Sapient** » December 7th, 2005, 3:31 am

Right, the northern "desert island" villages are supposed to go to P1 typically. And the southern "ice" and "water" villages should go to P2 typically. If this is the case, P2 ends up with one extra village (9 vs 8 villages). So, I don't see how you put economic advantage to P1?

Sure, he could send a couple of bats swooping down to the snowy island. A good idea, but bats don't hold long against calvary.

And I accept your challenge, sir. I'm usually on around 7:30pm - midnight EST.

Post by **Doc Paterson** » December 7th, 2005, 12:31 pm

Sapient wrote:Right, the northern "desert island" villages are supposed to go to P1 typically. And the southern "ice" and "water" villages should go to P2 typically.

Player 1's Nagas will take/block off those villages before P1 can even reach them. This isn't a matter of opinion. Just try it. Also, are you suggesting that it's at all feasible to send expensive Cavalry units out onto the ice to do battle? The whole operation would fail, and would be a big waste of money.

But anyways....

By 7:30, I'll likely be gone, but you never know- I'd put my chances of being on at that time around 1 in 3.

Are you busy around 3-5PM EST?

I'll look for you.....

Website · Post by **Sapient** » December 7th, 2005, 4:03 pm

Of course! A first turn naga interception... it's amazing I never thought of that or played against anyone who used it.

Now I hang my head in shame at ever thinking this map was balanced. Ah well... maybe I'll fix it later.

Rawr · Post by **Rawr** » December 20th, 2005, 5:28 pm

A theoretical victory! Nice "playing" Doc.

This is why generals used to meet in the middle of the battlefield before fighting. Sometimes the battle could be completed without bloodshed.