Airiya (Iranian-type faction)

[Anyar]

I would prefer one line for the kardakes.
Maybe something like this:

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Raw Kardakes(l0) -> Kardakes(L1) -> Kardakes Elect(L2) - Fast, With javelin and Spear, lowr xp to adv.(Like Spearman/Javelineer)
                                 ->Dathapatis(L2) ->Satapatis(L3) -> Hazarapatis(L4) - Steadfast, no range
                                                  ->Immortal(L3) - Less armored than Satapatis, more attacks, bow as ranged attack

But I still prefer the way I had it(in the first place, I messed it up on the unit list:

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                           -> Immortal -> Immortal Champion - Strong melee, like elf hero
             -> Dathapatis -> Satapatis -> Hazarapatis - Leadership, like elf captain
Raw Kardakes -> Kardakes -> Elite Kardakes - Light Infantry

[Temuchin Khan]

It's past time that we posted the entire proposed tree, cavalry and all. I'll go with Anyar's preferences on the Kardakes and Dathapatis lines, but the Immortals wouldn't be the Immortals if they weren't armed and equipped as I've described them here!

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Magauuan -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack
         -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy and cures

Raw Kardakes (lvl 0) -> Kardakes -> Elite Kardakes -- light infantry; spear/javelin
                     -> Dathapatis -> Satapatis -> Hazarapatis -- leadership
                     -> Immortal -> Immortal Champion -- spear and bow and wicker shield

Airiyan Horse Archer -> Elect Horse Archer -> Elite Horse Archer -- wields bow but no melee attack; has skirmisher; has "Parthian shot", a special ability which allows him to opt to make one attack and then break off combat with no retaliations but also no further attempts on his part and then move {basically, a balanced implementation of Dave's "hit-and-run" idea}.

Airiyan Heavy Horse -> Airiyan Noble -> Elite Airiyan Noble -- has charge (blade); has javelin
                    -> Airiyan Vassal -> Airiyan Satrap -- has leadership

Mercenary Hoplite -> Merceneary Elect -> Mercenary Elite -- your friendly neighborhood Greek mercenary

Conscript (lvl 0) -> Subject -> Satrapal Levy

And then there is the line we have not yet decided on, adjusted to account for a level 4 infantryman (after all, we can't let anyone outrank the King of Kings!):

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Airiyan Chariot -> War Chariot -> Elite War Chariot
                               -> Noble Chariot -> Royal Chariot

Or should we make the chariot branch off the heavy cavalry?

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Airiyan Heavy Horse -> Airiyan Noble -> Airiyan Satrap -- has charge (blade); has javelin
                                     -> Officer's Chariot -> Royal Chariot -- has leadership

[Temuchin Khan]

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Magauuan -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack
         -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy and cures

Raw Kardakes (lvl 0) -> Kardakes -> Elite Kardakes -- light infantry; spear/javelin
                     -> Dathapatis -> Satapatis -> Hazarapatis -- leadership
                     -> Immortal -> Immortal Champion -- spear and bow and wicker shield

Airiyan Horse Archer -> Elect Horse Archer -> Elite Horse Archer -- wields bow but no melee attack; has skirmisher; has "Parthian shot", a special ability which allows him to opt to make one attack and then break off combat with no retaliations but also no further attempts on his part and then move {basically, a balanced implementation of Dave's "hit-and-run" idea}.

Airiyan Heavy Horse -> Airiyan Noble -> Elite Airiyan Noble -- has charge (blade); has javelin
                    -> Airiyan Officer -> Airiyan Satrap -- has leadership, loses charge (blade)
                                       -> Royal Chariot -- has leadership; useless beyond plains

Mercenary Hoplite -> Merceneary Elect -> Mercenary Elite -- your friendly neighborhood Greek mercenary

Conscript (lvl 0) -> Subject -> Satrapal Levy

In fact, I wouldn't mind if the Mercenary Hoplite and the Conscript were dropped and we were left with three lvl 1 Airiyan units and one lvl 0.

[turin]

Just wondering, if we are also going to create a Greek faction, is there any reason to have the Greek Hoplite unit be different from the Mercenary Hoplite at all? I was thinking that we could just have both factions be able to recruit the Hoplite.

[Temuchin Khan]

Just wondering, if we are also going to create a Greek faction, is there any reason to have the Greek Hoplite unit be different from the Mercenary Hoplite at all? I was thinking that we could just have both factions be able to recruit the Hoplite.

The Greek Hoplite would have light-armed and marine branches, the Mercenary Hoplite would have no branches.

[turin]

I would prefer if the Conscript was dropped. It doesn't add much to the faction, IMHO; just like the Peasant doesn't add to the Loyalists (and thus is not, IIRC, recruitable in MP.)

It seems strange to me to have a hoplite recruitable by any faction other than the Greeks.

[Temuchin Khan]

How about this, scaling down the Airiya as much as possible:

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Magauuan -> Magauuan of the Holy Flame -> Magauuan of Ahura's Flame -- fire attack
         -> Magauuan Healer -> Magauuan Elder -- holy and cures

Raw Kardakes (lvl 0) -> Kardakes -> Elite Kardakes -- light infantry; spear/javelin
                     -> Dathapatis -> Satapatis -> Hazarapatis -- steadfast, no ranged attack
                     -> Immortal -> Anoush -> Anoush Hero -- spear and bow and wicker shield

Airiyan Horse Archer -> Elect Horse Archer -> Elite Horse Archer -- wields bow but no melee attack; has skirmisher; has "Parthian shot", a special ability which allows him to opt to make one attack and then break off combat with no retaliations but also no further attempts on his part and then move {basically, a balanced implementation of Dave's "hit-and-run" idea}.

Airiyan Heavy Horse -> Airiyan Horse Elect -> Airiyan Horse Elite -- has charge (blade); has javelin
                    -> Airiyan Noble -> Airiyan Lord -- has leadership, loses charge (blade)

Also, both leadership and steadfast have at different times been suggested as abilities for the Dathapatis branch, and at one time it was even suggested that they should have both abilities! Which shall it be?

[turin]

It looks good. Am I correct in thinking that the Raw Kardakes would be the main fighting unit of this faction?

SInce I have no clue what a Dathapatis is, I'll leave that decision to you.

[Temuchin Khan]

It looks good. Am I correct in thinking that the Raw Kardakes would be the main fighting unit of this faction?

In terms of numbers, yes.

SInce I have no clue what a Dathapatis is, I'll leave that decision to you. ;)

I would prefer that they have steadfast, but I would like Anyar at least to decide whether he thinks steadfast or leadership would be a better fit. From the information we have available about them, though, a case could be made for either.

[Cuyo Quiz]

IIRC, the dathapatis was a front-line soldier, carrying a big shield to hold the line against a spear formation. More of a rank sprung in the moment when the Persians fought the spartan phalanx and saw they were getting royally kicked.

Also, the Kardakes/Cardaces/Kurds/tons-of other-translinguistic-names were a tribe that was befriended by Persians, Parthians, Macedonians, and anyone who conquered the place, for they were ancient and influent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Kurds

Given this, i favor this spread:

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Raw Kardakes ->Kardakes ->Elite Kardakes; spear and javelin

[insert generic troop name here] ->Satapatis ->Hazarapatis; leadership
                                 ->Immortal ->Immortal Champion; spear/wicker shield and bow, quite competent

I don't know if the Raw Kardakes sohuld be lvl0 or lvl1, although i would expect them to have a different "foot", maybe more nimble.

[Temuchin Khan]

Also, the Kardakes/Cardaces/Kurds/tons-of other-translinguistic-names were a tribe that was befriended by Persians, Parthians, Macedonians, and anyone who conquered the place, for they were ancient and influent.

Some identify the Kardakes as Kurds, but others do not. Some of the ancient Greek historians make the Kardakes sound like a paramilitary version the Boy Scouts! So which version of Kardakes do we follow?

Also, on a different note, before proceeding with the Airiya we would need to know whether it would be possible to code the Horse Archer's "Parthian Shot" attack, which would be distinct from his normal ranged attack.

Here's how it would work: Parthian Shot allows the Airiyan Horse Archer to fire one arrow, break off combat without suffering retaliation, and then move. He would not be able to attack again after moving.

Basically, it would be a version of the hit-and-run attack that Dave has talked about in the past, but with the additional ability to not suffer retaliation when utilizing it. Since he would only be firing one arrow, and the defender would therefore have a fair shot of escaping unscathed, I don't think it would unbalance anything.

I would also like it if Parthian shot allowed the Airiyan Horse Archer to temporarily ignore zones of control, but if anyone objects that aspect of it could easily be dropped. Again, though, if he only ignored zones of control when using this ability, then it would arguably be more balanced than if he could use skirmisher all the time.

So what do people think? Would this be feasible?

[Anyar]

I would prefer that they have steadfast, but I would like Anyar at least to decide whether he thinks steadfast or leadership would be a better fit. From the information we have available about them, though, a case could be made for either.

Since other units have leadership, maybe it should go with steadfast(I prefer leadership though, as it fits more with what I've read about the Persians). I think that having temporary skirmisher with Parthian Shot is a pretty good idea, because it fits historically, but it might be a little overpowered. Historical accuracy is good, but it doesnt need to be exact, so the Kardakes thing doesn't matter much.

[K3lba]

You guys should also look into Assyrians, who basically owned the Middle-East from 1200 B.C. to 600 B.C. If you need help, I can help you, as I am one

[Temuchin Khan]

You guys should also look into Assyrians, who basically owned the Middle-East from 1200 B.C. to 600 B.C. If you need help, I can help you, as I am one :)

I have thought about including the Assyrians, but I've never been quite sure how to do it. Feel free to suggest something, though.

But you'd have to show that they would add something to the Imperial Era that the Romans, Greeks, Arabs, Persians, and Vikings don't already have. This is where I run into trouble whenever I consider including the Assyrians.

[K3lba]

Well they did come before all of them, so their techniques were adapted and improved...But as I said, the Sappara is an Assyrian Sword (Though other civs made replicas of it) where it was a curved blade (looks diff than most curved blades) and instead of using it do a straight-point pierce or a side-ways blow, it would be thrusted into the abdomen of the opponent and used to gut and drag out all of the internal organs in the abdominal area. Pretty gruesome

Siege archers were effective and never adapted by another civ...but siege archers are a pair of two people, one holding a huge shield while the other shoots. And as it says, it was used to siege buildings...something Wesnoth doesn't really have. Only way I can see it working is if it has like 90% hit rate and increased damage when targeting someone on castle/keep ground.

Something definately should be added from Assyrians though, as they were one of the best if not the best ancient semitic empire. Arabs are...Arabs, and persians are influence by Arabs and Greeks.

About how the soldiers look?

http://www.jhendor.de/images/reviews/assyrian.jpg

Instead of the overused shirt/pants or platemail, a long robe with a chainmail chest.