Addition to Knalgan Alliance

[turin]

Wouldn't this concept of scatter (induvidual attacks dealing variable amounts of damage) apply to pretty much every weapon?
If firing a blunderbuss/shotgun/grapeshot at the enemy would give different results each time (and I agree that it would) wouldn't swinging a sword at someone be the same?

However a unit doing a single blast of unpredictable damage would certainly be something unique.

Yes, it would. However, a blunderbuss would probably be even more random than a normal weapon. Thus, it would be a specialty the blunderbuss would have.

I'm not sure it is a good idea. It might be better to just give the blunderbuss unit a 10-2 attack with marksman.

[Assasin]

marskman??? you've gotta be kidding

[Cuyo Quiz]

I think not, when you have a wide or large volley of thing coming at you, chance says you'll get hit at least partially, so having an x-y marksman attack, where y>1, can represent this fairly well, since at least one rep of the attack has a good chance of hitting the target.

I wonder... when and why was the percentage for marksman decided?.

[turin]

A long long time ago, by Dave, because 50% is too low (IIRC 50% is the average defence) and 70% was reserved for Magical attacks. (At that time the lowest defence any unit had anywhere was 30%, so really "60% or higher" meant "60% or 70%".)

[JW]

Wouldn't this concept of scatter (induvidual attacks dealing variable amounts of damage) apply to pretty much every weapon?
If firing a blunderbuss/shotgun/grapeshot at the enemy would give different results each time (and I agree that it would) wouldn't swinging a sword at someone be the same?

However a unit doing a single blast of unpredictable damage would certainly be something unique.

Yes, it would. However, a blunderbuss would probably be even more random than a normal weapon. Thus, it would be a specialty the blunderbuss would have.

I'm not sure it is a good idea. It might be better to just give the blunderbuss unit a 10-2 attack with marksman.

I don't like the idea of Scatter, simply because if this ability were introduced to the game then it should be introduced fully into the game and every attack should have it. It would be more like a traditional RPG where hits are more guaranteed, but damage is variable.

I recently had a discussion about creating a new mode with this type of combat in a multiplayer game. The problem I see with this is that it would really change the entire nature of the game. While this may neither be good nor bad, it would in definitely be a lot different - and I think the goal of developing Wesnoth is not to make it less like Wesnoth, but to make it more like Wesnoth.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense.

I like the 10-2 marksman idea btw. Since it would be a level 2 unit that isn't really ridiculous - especially since the thunderer is already 18-1. His MDP (Maximum Damage Potential) is only increased by 2.

[Zhukov]

I don't like the idea of Scatter, simply because if this ability were introduced to the game then it should be introduced fully into the game and every attack should have it. It would be more like a traditional RPG where hits are more guaranteed, but damage is variable.

I fully agree with this. The introduction of 'scatter' could well bring about changes beyond this single unit. It would be, to use a word I dislike, 'unWesnothian'.

However the idea of a 10-2 Marksman, while perfectly workable, is a little bland. Also wouldn't this detract somewhat from the nature of the Thunderer line? The way I see it, Thunderers are 'lucky shot' units, with a annoying tendancy to miss. But when they hit, the results are more then worth the wait.
But a two-shot thunderer with an ability granting it 'more-likely-to-hit-then-miss'? Not a bad unit for its own sake, but IMO it goes against the concept of the thunderer.

[khamul]

However the idea of a 10-2 Marksman, while perfectly workable, is a little bland.

I completely agree.

I'd like to see the Knalgans go completely the other way, and have a high-attacks, low damage, low CTH unit. I _dislike_ the 'blunderbuss' idea for this, because a blunderbuss type thing is effectively a single-shot weapon, with variable damage. Modelling it as a multiple-attack weapon doesn't work, as the discussions above show (they keep tending back to a way to give a single-shot attack variable damage, which is what I _don't_ want).

I _like_ the roman candle idea. My personal mental image was a rack of rockets (as in, fireworks, not as in missiles) which go whizzing off towards the enemy.

I was thinking something like:

Dwarven Fireworker (Lvl 2)
3-5 Firecandle (fire) (ranged)
Scattershot -> Special: CTH is never more than 50%

Dwarven Firemaster (lvl 3)
3-8 Flamestaff (fire) (ranged)
Scattershot


This gives us a 'lucky' ranged unit in exactly the opposite way to the thunderer - i.e. it's pretty likely to do a little damage, but not very likely to do a lot of damage, as opposed to the thunderer which either does lots of damage, or none.

It's also substantially different to a mage unit, which is always likely to do a good amount of damage. It fills the role the poacher currently fills, by doing a small amount of damage, fairly reliably, at range.

I know this introduces balancing issues, but it would be interesting, and I don't think anyone's really expecting SVN trunk to be properly balanced for a while.

[JW]

I _like_ the roman candle idea. My personal mental image was a rack of rockets (as in, fireworks, not as in missiles) which go whizzing off towards the enemy.

I was thinking something like:

Dwarven Fireworker (Lvl 2)
3-5 Firecandle (fire) (ranged)
Scattershot -> Special: CTH is never more than 50%

Dwarven Firemaster (lvl 3)
3-8 Flamestaff (fire) (ranged)
Scattershot

This gives us a 'lucky' ranged unit in exactly the opposite way to the thunderer - i.e. it's pretty likely to do a little damage, but not very likely to do a lot of damage, as opposed to the thunderer which either does lots of damage, or none.

It's also substantially different to a mage unit, which is always likely to do a good amount of damage. It fills the role the poacher currently fills, by doing a small amount of damage, fairly reliably, at range.

I know this introduces balancing issues, but it would be interesting, and I don't think anyone's really expecting SVN trunk to be properly balanced for a while.

I don't know what SVN trunk is, but I can tell you that 3-5 is underpowered for a lvl 2 unit, especcially coming off the thunderer line, even moreso with the new special (even though it is fire damage and not pierce).

I do like the idea of never more than 50% to hit, but if it's a level 2 unit it should be something like:

Dwarven Fireworker (Lvl 2)
3-7 Firecandle (fire) (ranged)
Scattershot -> Special: CTH is never more than 50%

Abd for the level 3:

Dwarven Firemaster (lvl 3)
3-11 Flamestaff (fire) (ranged)
Scattershot

Also, I would keep the melee really low on this unit and make it weak to fire: fire would make their fireworks explode! Probably -20%, just like Undead.

[khamul]

... some stuff...

Yes.

[khamul]

'Firestorm Pipes' is probably a better name than 'flamestaff' - which is a bit too close to the names of the Thunderer line weapons. It also conjures the image of a rack of Roman Candles about to be let off at the foe, which is about right.

Still not really happy with it though.

[The Green Tooth]

Dwarven holy thunderer? http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 613#117613

[Nicolas]

I have one unit to show you: dwarvish demigod
Hp: 50
Lev: 3
Abilities:cures
Movement: 4
Movement type: Dwarvenfoot
Attacks: Godstaff,2-9,impact,melee
........Glyjns Ruby,3-12,fire,ranged,magical
..Glyjns Diamond,3-12,cold,magical

Description: Demigods have obtained the gifts of the god Glyjns when they were priests:that god decided that his power needed to fall in the hands of the dwarves for defending theyr race:al the powers fell in a lost temple,and only the best priests could find it and they maintain the secret for avoiding spyes,bad priests,or even the dwarves that aren't priests to take the power of the throne of the dwarves.

[Cuyo Quiz]

I'm sorry, i posted the link to this thread, but i didn't expect something like this to happen, i feel awfully guilty right now...

I'm so sorry...

I still like the roman candle idea, if that makes anyone feel a little better about the idea...

[romnajin]

Nice dress

[Maeglin Dubh]

For shame, Cuyo. For shame.

*shudder*