'quick' trait and the -10% HP penalty

Swordy · Post by **Swordy** » November 20th, 2005, 4:13 pm

As far as I know, the 'quick' trait is the only trait that has a penalty, which is -10% HP.

I've heard from a developer that the reason 'quick' units have less HP is because they're slimmer (???). So slimmer people die quicker? I totally disagree if that's the reason behind the -10% HP penalty. (Whatever the reason is, I'd most probably disagree still

)

I strongly suggest that the penalty for 'quick' trait is removed. As an alternative, make all traits have penalty. But I prefer no penalty for any trait.

Thanks you

Rastignac · Post by **Rastignac** » November 20th, 2005, 4:37 pm

wow, this is unfair!

dantheperson · Post by **dantheperson** » November 20th, 2005, 4:47 pm

That helps explain alot of the health differences between units, I agree, remove them -10% thing.

Tomsik · Post by **Tomsik** » November 20th, 2005, 4:52 pm

AFAIK -10% HP is only for gameplay reasons, quick trait is very powerful and without this -10% it would be most powerful trait in the game.

Post by **Darth Fool** » November 20th, 2005, 5:05 pm

I have long been a proponent that no trait should have negative consequences. I am, however, amongst the devs in the minority opinion here, as quick is considered to be too overpowering by most of them if it is not penalized.

Swordy · Post by **Swordy** » November 20th, 2005, 5:33 pm

And now what... is it as weak and as powerful as other traits?
To me, it seems like the weakest at the moment.

Post by **torangan** » November 20th, 2005, 6:27 pm

To me it's one of the most powerfull traits depending on the unit receiving it. A unit with 5 movement and cost 2 on some terrain goes from 2 to 3 fields range which is a huge difference!

Ankka · Post by **Ankka** » November 20th, 2005, 6:55 pm

-10% penalty is nothing compared to the bonus quick gives.

If I can choose, I usually take a quick unit over any other.

Why should every trait be the same, not having or having a penalty? That would make the game boring.

-> What i might be working on · Post by **Eleazar** » November 20th, 2005, 7:02 pm

I'm not a master player, but for most units, quick is my favorite trait.
That extra MP often is a bigger aid to survival than the missing 10% HP would have been.

scott · Post by **scott** » November 20th, 2005, 7:15 pm

Well, this isn't exactly news. It has been discussed in the past, and the word from the top is that quick is so powerful that it needs the penalty. Even with the penalty it is still one of the most powerful traits. So, basically what others have already said.

unsung · Post by **unsung** » November 20th, 2005, 10:09 pm

I disagree with th efact that it suggests fast people die quickly the opposite usually happens, but I think it makes sense as far as gameplay goes.

Useless on heavy infantry though, which I find odd.

JW · Post by JW » November 20th, 2005, 10:24 pm

I think it's balanced, but I usually prefer not to lose the hp. My fav is Strong/Resiliant on Northerners/Knalgans. Of course, Strong/Dextrous is the only way to go for the Elves. =)

About a trait having a penalty, I didn't like it at first, but then I realised that it's not only to balance the trait, but it also make the trait more interesting that you have to work around it as well as with it.

I just love more compexity and more considerations I suppose. I think there should be more of everything in Wesnoth. =)

Swordy · Post by **Swordy** » November 21st, 2005, 2:42 am

wow okay

Post by **Dave** » November 21st, 2005, 3:30 am

Another reason for it is that it makes the game seem more varied: between the small hitpoint bonus strong gives, and the hitpoint penalty quick gives, the possible hitpoint variation of a unit can be large. i.e. you can actually recruit seven units of the same type and find that all seven have a different number of hitpoints.

One thing many people seem to lose sight of when discussing traits is that traits are not designed to be 'balanced' or 'fair'. They are designed to provide a little variety to units, rather than having all units of the same type as identical.

The only thing we want to really avoid in a trait is having one that really overpowers a unit, making that trait too desirable at the expense of all else.

I've regretted somewhat that I didn't "hide" traits, making them work internally and simply say "a unit's attributes will vary slightly from the attributes for its type". I think it'd stop people from getting so caught up as to whether a trait is 'fair' or not.

David

-> What i might be working on · Post by **Eleazar** » November 21st, 2005, 3:48 am

unsung wrote:I disagree with th efact that it suggests fast people die quickly the opposite usually happens, but I think it makes sense as far as gameplay goes.

It suggests that quick people are better off running away, than standing there and getting walloped. This is true.