Balancing the Drake Faction
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Duke Guillermo
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 25th, 2005, 9:32 pm
New Saurian unit
Name: Saurian Spellbreaker
Level: 1
Cost: 18
Advances to: Saurian Spellflector
Abilities: Anti-magic (better ability name? - this trait would calculate chance of a magic attack hitting in the same way as all other non-marksman/magic attacks => 100%-Defense=chance of hit)
HP: 26
Moves: 6
Alignment: chaotic
Required XP: 23
Info: Saurian Spellbreakers train studiously with, and only with, Saurian Tribalists in the attempt to learn how to negate any magical attacks aimed in their direction. This study takes long and is costly for any sponsor, but it is well worth it as those votaries who choose this path learn all the ways of anti-magic and how to use their spell-blocking clubs to the fullest. However, their lack of training against foes wielding physical weapons makes them poor fighters against any adversary brandishing sword, spear, club, bow, or axe.
Attacks: Club, Impact, 6-3, melee
Resistances:
Attack Type Resistance
Blade -30%
Cold 50%
Fire 30%
Holy 30%
Impact -10%
Pierce -30%
Moves and Defense ratings identical to those of the Saurian Skirmisher
I want feedback so I know how I can improve this unit, do you think it solves issues with the game whilst being easy to program? It does include a new ability which may be difficult, but I don't think that it would be so difficult as the method of calculating attacks reverts back to the standard way, which shouldn't be difficult for a developer. What about it's Levelled up version, the Spellflector, I was planning on having it have an additional special ability that any magic spell blocked would have a 10% chance of being "reflected" counting as an identical magical attack against the caster of the spell who WOULD have a chance to block it. Would this be easy to implement and would it improve gameplay. I hope to hear feedback both positive and negative so I know how to improve on this idea.
Level: 1
Cost: 18
Advances to: Saurian Spellflector
Abilities: Anti-magic (better ability name? - this trait would calculate chance of a magic attack hitting in the same way as all other non-marksman/magic attacks => 100%-Defense=chance of hit)
HP: 26
Moves: 6
Alignment: chaotic
Required XP: 23
Info: Saurian Spellbreakers train studiously with, and only with, Saurian Tribalists in the attempt to learn how to negate any magical attacks aimed in their direction. This study takes long and is costly for any sponsor, but it is well worth it as those votaries who choose this path learn all the ways of anti-magic and how to use their spell-blocking clubs to the fullest. However, their lack of training against foes wielding physical weapons makes them poor fighters against any adversary brandishing sword, spear, club, bow, or axe.
Attacks: Club, Impact, 6-3, melee
Resistances:
Attack Type Resistance
Blade -30%
Cold 50%
Fire 30%
Holy 30%
Impact -10%
Pierce -30%
Moves and Defense ratings identical to those of the Saurian Skirmisher
I want feedback so I know how I can improve this unit, do you think it solves issues with the game whilst being easy to program? It does include a new ability which may be difficult, but I don't think that it would be so difficult as the method of calculating attacks reverts back to the standard way, which shouldn't be difficult for a developer. What about it's Levelled up version, the Spellflector, I was planning on having it have an additional special ability that any magic spell blocked would have a 10% chance of being "reflected" counting as an identical magical attack against the caster of the spell who WOULD have a chance to block it. Would this be easy to implement and would it improve gameplay. I hope to hear feedback both positive and negative so I know how to improve on this idea.
In summation, you're wrong.
Ok, just pitching a couple ideas. I'm don't know the game so in depth, so I prob. shouldn't make the stats.
Saurian Burrower: A lizard that digs "foxholes", to defend from. either simply give it the steadfast ability, or maybe a new ability where it's defense rating(% chance to hit it) goes up, including or not against magic?
lvl3 from icecaster, Saurian Elementalist:These casters have managed to harness not only the power of the winds of the cold north, but also the arcane power of the very sky....something like that. add a "lightningbolt" spell, which does fire damage. basically, I'd like to see a mage that has both cold and fire spells. In fact, imho lvl4 or at the very least lvl5 mage should have that. I mean, cmon, such a powerful mage, and only one spell?
lvl3 from soothsayer: I had thought of a unit that has both the cure and heal ability, but I suppose that would be too powerful....otherwise it'd be called the Saurian WitchDoctor!!!
Saurian Sybill: These saurians have learned to cast magical protective shields around them, raising their resistance by quite a bit.
basically, increase their resistances "quite a bit".
Saurian Burrower: A lizard that digs "foxholes", to defend from. either simply give it the steadfast ability, or maybe a new ability where it's defense rating(% chance to hit it) goes up, including or not against magic?
lvl3 from icecaster, Saurian Elementalist:These casters have managed to harness not only the power of the winds of the cold north, but also the arcane power of the very sky....something like that. add a "lightningbolt" spell, which does fire damage. basically, I'd like to see a mage that has both cold and fire spells. In fact, imho lvl4 or at the very least lvl5 mage should have that. I mean, cmon, such a powerful mage, and only one spell?
lvl3 from soothsayer: I had thought of a unit that has both the cure and heal ability, but I suppose that would be too powerful....otherwise it'd be called the Saurian WitchDoctor!!!
Saurian Sybill: These saurians have learned to cast magical protective shields around them, raising their resistance by quite a bit.
basically, increase their resistances "quite a bit".
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Duke Guillermo
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 25th, 2005, 9:32 pm
lifesayko,
How would these new units and ideas balance the Drake faction. You didn't suggest how they would counter cold damage or solve any issues or suggest anything relevant. This forum is about the balancing the [i]Drake Faction[/i] and many of your suggestions have nothing to do with this.
How would these new units and ideas balance the Drake faction. You didn't suggest how they would counter cold damage or solve any issues or suggest anything relevant. This forum is about the balancing the [i]Drake Faction[/i] and many of your suggestions have nothing to do with this.
In summation, you're wrong.
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Doc Paterson
- Drake Cartographer
- Posts: 1973
- Joined: February 21st, 2005, 9:37 pm
- Location: Kazakh
- Contact:
I've still yet to see you online, at any time, and I've been on quite a lot lately.Duke Guillermo wrote:lifesayko,
How would these new units and ideas balance the Drake faction. You didn't suggest how they would counter cold damage or solve any issues or suggest anything relevant. This forum is about the balancing the Drake Faction and many of your suggestions have nothing to do with this.
I'll say it again; nothing productive will come of a thread based on a ridiculous premise. You ought to try to find and play some good Drake players, or, just spend more time playing in general, before you use up all of this time puzzling over a non-existant problem.
I'm guessing we're usually online at very different times (as I've still never seen you), so you should keep your eyes open for Dragonking or Soliton. I'm sure that either of these two could give you the demonstration that you're looking for.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses. -Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
People are always saying that either undead are too weak when fighting drakes, or drakes are too weak when fighting undead, or that undead suck, or that undead are overpowered, or the same for drakes... they're two rather amusing factions, 
In all seriousness, though, I think that anyone who wants to complain about balancing should have to actually have observed the experts playing first... if that doesn't happen, we get a lot of clutter on the forums...
In all seriousness, though, I think that anyone who wants to complain about balancing should have to actually have observed the experts playing first... if that doesn't happen, we get a lot of clutter on the forums...
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
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Duke Guillermo
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 25th, 2005, 9:32 pm
So, Soliton or Doc Paterson beat me and beat me well. I was a little too arrogant in my saying that Drake can't beat Undead, it's just harder for them than for other factions in my opinion. I am not a very experienced player and yet I lasted for a decent period of time. I still think that I am right that Drake needs a unit with cold resistance and a better unit with impact, I think I solved that with my proposed unit, but I want to hear what you think.
In summation, you're wrong.
Wait undead overpowered bad Turin bad. Only drakes have had that called on them. At least in a long long while.....Undead are always claimed to be weak which is still debateable. The only thing that is 100% true about undead is that you'll only ever see 3 different types of units or less when they face any other faction. Well unless your playing a noob or a crazy person in which case you might see more then a fraction of any given faction.
May the drakes bloody kill you all.
Pat is the Burn of the Burninator. He is the best Drake Player I've played against. You should expect to get your butt kicked.Duke Guillermo wrote:So, Soliton or Doc Paterson beat me and beat me well.
Saurians are sorry. Quite frankly, they only serve as expensive cannon fodder. Unless you get skirmishers, FORGET IT!!!I still think that I am right that Drake needs a unit with cold resistance and a better unit with impact, I think I solved that with my proposed unit, but I want to hear what you think.
Besides, if you want drakes to have a good cold resisting unit, just up the defense of the Drake Warrior. That should do it nicely.
I speak what's on my mind.
Which is why nothing I say makes sense.
Which is why nothing I say makes sense.
@guillermo: uhm, the units weren't specifically to balance the drake faction, mainly just level-ups. the burrower could be seen as a balance though, no?
in anycase, imho it shouldn't be balanced even if undead were slightly stronger than drakes.
It's only drakes vs undead, not drakes in general. I think it's natural that certain factions are particularily effective against certain other ones, and weak against others. Otherwise, if we balanced everything then every faction would be similar, sort of like Warcraft2: orcs and humans had almost exactly the same units stats-wise, which one you choose is basically just personal preference over graphics. Also in WC3 imho now it's too overbalanced with all the patches. But I digress.
nycase, I think it's right that each faction has certain weaknesses and strengths vs others.
in anycase, imho it shouldn't be balanced even if undead were slightly stronger than drakes.
It's only drakes vs undead, not drakes in general. I think it's natural that certain factions are particularily effective against certain other ones, and weak against others. Otherwise, if we balanced everything then every faction would be similar, sort of like Warcraft2: orcs and humans had almost exactly the same units stats-wise, which one you choose is basically just personal preference over graphics. Also in WC3 imho now it's too overbalanced with all the patches. But I digress.
nycase, I think it's right that each faction has certain weaknesses and strengths vs others.
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Duke Guillermo
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 25th, 2005, 9:32 pm
Drake
I disagree, I believe that when it comes down to one faction vs. one faction the winner should be determined by skill, not by which faction's "strengths" counter another's. When the Drake play the Undead, while they can most certainly win, they have a harder time then when they play another faction because they have negative cold resistance. I don't think that factions should have the same units, but I think that each side should have at least one unit that can counter another side's and currently the Drake don't have a true cost-effective counter to face ghosts. I will use the example of AOE2. Sure, the aztecs had no cavalry, but they could still counter archers with their eagle warrior. And the britons didn't have great cavalry, but they beat other player's archers with their own archers who had ridiculous range. Even though sides had strengths and weaknesses, in the end the winner was the one with the most skill.
In summation, you're wrong.
Oh... i think that what you want is a safe/hard counter.
Well, i am sorry to say that, well, i don't think those things exist or should exist. You could have a counter, but it won't always have a noticeable advantage or be a safe unit to fight the other. Counters only get so good... even when the advantages seem to be against you. I think that Doc/Soliton should have proven this to you by now.
I think that as long as it exist a unit that can put up some fight it is enough. Hell, Adepts don't even have a melee attack, that alone should make them easy enough to counter. Ghosts... well, you have fire. Lots.
Well, i am sorry to say that, well, i don't think those things exist or should exist. You could have a counter, but it won't always have a noticeable advantage or be a safe unit to fight the other. Counters only get so good... even when the advantages seem to be against you. I think that Doc/Soliton should have proven this to you by now.
I think that as long as it exist a unit that can put up some fight it is enough. Hell, Adepts don't even have a melee attack, that alone should make them easy enough to counter. Ghosts... well, you have fire. Lots.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me 
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Re: Drake
the skill is using those strengths against your opponents weaknesses. The undead have a low resistance to fire, so you burninate them. But Drakes are weak against cold, so you build Dark Adepts, which are much cheaper then Fire Drakes. and if you want some cannon fodder, zombies. But then you can counter him with Skirmishers or Drake Warriors. You see, its all about how you use them.Duke Guillermo wrote:I disagree, I believe that when it comes down to one faction vs. one faction the winner should be determined by skill, not by which faction's "strengths" counter another's.
I guess you just suck at Wesnoth. It's the same with any faction!! Dwarves lack ranged units, but their fighters are good. The undead units lack hp, but they are very cheap. The Drakes are very good, but they are very expensive. The Elves are all about archers, and the Loyalists have the terrific mounted units.I will use the example of AOE2....
I speak what's on my mind.
Which is why nothing I say makes sense.
Which is why nothing I say makes sense.
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Elvish_Pillager
- Posts: 8137
- Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
- Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
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Re: Drake
They have two! That's as many as any other faction...Assasin wrote:Dwarves lack ranged units
Only the Bat and Corpse, which are (thank goodness!) no longer the sole Undead troops. The most abusive units now are the Skeletons, and that could be fixed by my old Skeleton movetypep proposal...Assasin wrote:The undead units lack hp, but they are very cheap.
Even though their archer is one of the least effecient archers in the game, nowadays...Assasin wrote:The Elves are all about archers,
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
