Unbalanced scenarios

[bakaohki]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for my post and I absolutely don't want to be a troll or anything like that (besides I'm not a native speaker, so my sentences are filled with errors). I have read many strategy tips, tips and tricks, mini walkthroughs but I still think that the Heir to the throne campaign is terribly hard (on normal).

When I see posts saying that one should go back one or two levels and build up a better army I really feel frustrated; yes, maybe this is a good idea, but when I have to replay a level three or four times just to find a winning strategy (without constantly reloading) it really-really kills the fun. I love turn based strategy games (finished UFO on superhuman in days, enjoyed HOMM, Disciples etc.), but I find these levels either okay or most of the time way too hard (especially with the time limits). I think Wesnoth's normal setting should be renamed to something like hard, and we should call the hard smg like nightmare ;_;

Either way, I just wanted to say that this is not fun, no matter how many little Napoleons are there to argue with me. I'm looking forward for version 1.1, but til' then Wesnoth will stay untouched in my portage tree (unfortunately I don't have the time for multiplayer games)...

[turin]

Why don't you play on easy instead? Wouldn't that solve the problem?

This isn't to say a renaming isn't necessary, but I didn't see any mention of you trying easy first if normal is too hard, and that seems like the obvious solution.

[bakaohki]

Yeah I know, but I think that the medium level is just way too hard. By the way I'm quite close to the end of the first campaign (heir to the throne), but I can't find an option to decrease difficulty without restarting the whole campaign... but maybe this is my fault.

I have found a somewhat appropriate thread here, that describes my situation perfectly :(

And another thing: most people start playing games on the normal level (I have played with tons of games, finished quite a lot of them, mostly all on plain old normal/standard/medium) and Wesnoth states that the first campaign is good for starters. Maybe I'm just too dumb, but this is not what I expect from this level; and I consider myself a gamer who likes turn based strategy games; what would someone say just giving the game a try? -_-' Another problem is that some levels are very hard to do with a bad start, so this means that the user can end up with an unfinishable level, unless he or she goes back and plays again previous level(s) - but this is not obvious at first (read: in the first hour).

[Eleazar]

Bakaohki, your english isn't bad.

Many, (including myself) complain that HttT is too hard even on easy. HttT has been modified to become easier since it was released, but finding the right ballance is difficult for those who are extremely familiar with Wesnoth.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone new to Wesnoth played through HttT on Normal without frequent loading/saving the first time.

[turin]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone new to Wesnoth played through HttT on Normal without frequent loading/saving the first time.

I'd be interested as to why that should be expected. You should play easy first, even if you think you'll do well.

However, this is really not explained well in the introduction. IIRC, at one point it even said that players experienced with other TBSs should start on Normal. That is obviously false. Really, instead of rebalancing the campaigns, all we need to do is make it clearer that people should start on Easy, not Normal or Hard...

[Eleazar]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone new to Wesnoth played through HttT on Normal without frequent loading/saving the first time.

I'd be interested as to why that should be expected. You should play easy first, even if you think you'll do well.

However, this is really not explained well in the introduction. IIRC, at one point it even said that players experienced with other TBSs should start on Normal. That is obviously false. Really, instead of rebalancing the campaigns, all we need to do is make it clearer that people should start on Easy, not Normal or Hard...

To me, "Normal" implies that gamers already experienced in the genre should be able to beat the game at that setting, i just wonder if anyone, ever has done that.

As he says the easiest way to make HttT more accessable for Newcomers is to rename "Easy" as "Normal" etc. Maybe a bit more tactical advice thrown in wouldn't hurt.

Or maybe a different campaign that's easier and shorter should be positioned as a beginners campaign.

[turin]

As in, a campaign like the South Guard should be added to mainline. I completely agree. So does everyone else I've seen mention the issue. But nothing ever happens.

Perhaps the South Guard could be implemented as part of an extended tutorial - that would really help, since the current tutorial is not-so-good at preparing people for how hard wesnoth is...

[scott]

Maybe they're waiting for The South Guard to be finished?

[Jetrel]

To me, "Normal" implies that gamers already experienced in the genre should be able to beat the game at that setting, i just wonder if anyone, ever has done that.

As he says the easiest way to make HttT more accessable for Newcomers is to rename "Easy" as "Normal" etc. Maybe a bit more tactical advice thrown in wouldn't hurt.

Or maybe a different campaign that's easier and shorter should be positioned as a beginners campaign.

I second everything said here.

[bakaohki]

Thank you for the nice replies, really.

I usually chose normal because I have played lots of games (arcades, c64, SNES, psx and PC stuff way back to the AT/XT cga era) but my girlfriend choose easy, because all she knows about strategy in computer gaming is Dune 2 (and still she has problems with early levels). So either the renaming would be nice (to something like normal-hard-expert (or something more original) or the introduction in the first campaign should have some word of warning though. I really like the idea of a new and longer in-depth tutorial, but that would just postpone problems without solving them (unless it really explains the difference on difficulty settings, since we don't know much abut those; is hard just an AI boost or does it change the way money and injuries handled for example).

+On save-loading: to me it kills the fun; maybe once or twice in a game, in very risky situations, but I think that a strategy game with only one acceptable strategy has some serious flaws and with problematic starts (low on money, high level units killed) I usually end up desperately trying to find the only viable strategy (after 3 to 5 tries) or I finally go back one or two levels (this is the case with the current nightmarish level, the Sceptre of Fire too).

Besides the renaming issue it would be really nice to allow the user to restart the actual scenario on a different level without redoing the whole campaign (but the best would be changing dificulty ingame, but I'm not sure if the game mechanics would allow that).

Small idea (may ignore it): In another post someone mentioned that highly trained units should just get injured on easy and considering a luck factor they should be allowed to be recruited again. In HOMM you could flee from the battle and then you could recruit your hero in the local tavern; but considering Wesnoth's brutality (luck plays a major role in the game) one would be more than happy if one unit got injured out of five or ten (assuming the rest are dead). But you may ignore these foughts, since they involve changing the game's core and right now I'm just complaining about difficulty, which could be easily solved with rebalancing some scenarios or giving the user a proper warning on difficulty settings.

[dtw]

I save load all the time in HttT - some of the levels bore the [censored] out of me and i refuse to lose good units to crap levels - notably dwarven doors and Test of the Clans.

I utterly fail to see how anyone can beat DD on Normal by killing all 3 generals (I know you aren't supposed to)

[Yogibear]

If you are not supposed to, then why should you do it? Did you try to kill all the orcs in scenario one where you are supposed to run away? I have never read any complaints about that scenario. Maybe people think it's more natural to run if you are an unexperienced level 1 beginner like Konrad.

[dtw]

If you are not supposed to, then why should you do it? Did you try to kill all the orcs in scenario one where you are supposed to run away? I have never read any complaints about that scenario. Maybe people think it's more natural to run if you are an unexperienced level 1 beginner like Konrad.

You've never see any complaints?! Well, they may not be compaints but along with Test of the Clans it is one of the scenarios people request help with - that suggests to me that it is too hard or needs tweaking in some way. I made suggestions here [warning: spoilers]

Oh, and I mention killing them because I have been told it is possible and even, in some cases, easier than running...

[imbaczek]

IMHO it's too long and that's what makes it too hard - there are places where you need to get back several missions if you did something wrong, and that's not really a reasonable thing to expect from players, hence the difficulty...

[Darth Fool]

Besides the renaming issue it would be really nice to allow the user to restart the actual scenario on a different level without redoing the whole campaign (but the best would be changing dificulty ingame, but I'm not sure if the game mechanics would allow that).

This is possible to do now, although it requires a little knowledge. First go into the advanced preferences and make sure that binary saves is off (if it is already then skip the next step). Then load the game that you want to play on easy and resave your game. Now pop up your favorite editor and load the save file (location depends on OS, you will need to tell us which OS for us to tell you where to find it.) edit the difficulty setting from normal to easy. Voila, the game will play on easy with a couple caveats. If you load a game mid-scenario, likely the game might not become easy until the next scenario. If you load the automatic save at the beginning of a scenario, though, it should always work.

enjoy!