Orcish shaman
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It sounds like you understand my point about political leadership/general charisma vs. military leadership, but your example with Julius Caeser isn't that great. He just happened to have both, like Konrad or Li'sar.
Your counterpoint that in the orc world you can't have political-type leadership without military skill also sounds valid.
So now to keep my position I have to figure out a way to paint the shamans as non-leaders but still somehow have valuable standing in the orc community. Hmmm...
Your counterpoint that in the orc world you can't have political-type leadership without military skill also sounds valid.
So now to keep my position I have to figure out a way to paint the shamans as non-leaders but still somehow have valuable standing in the orc community. Hmmm...
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Orcish chieftains are good tacticians and a great source of stimulation for their troops (if you want a special example, see the Orcish Ruler/Sovereign/etc), and as the use of allies and Asassins seem to imply, they know quite a few things about war.
However, they aren't that great when it comes to politics or social issues, so they turn to the Shamans, who not only seems to be good at taking the right decisions, but also have a greater power (magic) that not many seems to have, that marks them and makes them special.
So, when it's war time, chieftains know what to do. But when something that could affect the tribe as a whole happens (bad weather, danger of great conflict, social unrest) "let's go ask the shamans for counsel".
Is that good enough scott?, cuz that's the way i see it.
However, they aren't that great when it comes to politics or social issues, so they turn to the Shamans, who not only seems to be good at taking the right decisions, but also have a greater power (magic) that not many seems to have, that marks them and makes them special.
So, when it's war time, chieftains know what to do. But when something that could affect the tribe as a whole happens (bad weather, danger of great conflict, social unrest) "let's go ask the shamans for counsel".
Is that good enough scott?, cuz that's the way i see it.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me 
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
I'm losing a reality-based argument in a game that INR. You tell me.Cuyo Quiz wrote:Is that good enough scott?, cuz that's the way i see it.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Touche (damn inverted tilde thing, i don't know how!).
I remember Jetryl saying that he would like to have an essay on the species of Wesnoth though... this is why we need background/flavor devs, to say "yeah that's cool", "that is a little far fetched for Wesnoth" and "we prefer to leave that to each of the players to interpretate".[/i]
I remember Jetryl saying that he would like to have an essay on the species of Wesnoth though... this is why we need background/flavor devs, to say "yeah that's cool", "that is a little far fetched for Wesnoth" and "we prefer to leave that to each of the players to interpretate".[/i]
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
And I am the obvious candidate. 
In all seriousness, though, I've basically taken on that role... although nobody listens to me.
In all seriousness, though, I've basically taken on that role... although nobody listens to me.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Ok, time to comprimise, although I still think that it would be funner, make more sense and not really alter SotBE that much to spice them up a bit as I have explained before.
That being said, here is a story that might make them fit in. Remember, not much is said about Kapou'e's father, nor is anything said about in which era SotBE takes place. That being said, here is a suggestion:
Black Eye Karun was the first orc ever in the history of the Northlands to unite all the different warring tribes of orcs uner one banner. His accomplishments as a Soverign were many, including ending the 15 year war with wesnoth. However, Karun was a far sighted individual and he knew that after his death the orcish tribes would once again turn to fighting amoungst themselves and there would be very little he could do to prevent that. He also knew that when orcs were fighting amoungst themselves, it would be easy for any strong kindgom like wesnoth to wipe them off the face of the continent. Consequeltey, he selected from amoungst all the different tribes six of the most sober and wisest orcs and thus created the great council. It was the Great Council's job to stay aloof from any tribal or territorial squabbling amoungst the orcs, but yet alwyas remain there to give advice to whomever came to seek it. In order to preserve the orcish race in the event of an emergency, he invested in them the power to call upon The Great Horde. It was established that every orc, no matter what tribe he came from, must obey the summons of The Great Horde and follow wholeheartedly the leader that the Great Council put at the head of The Great Horde. As time went on, even the most strong headed of the orcs saw the benifit of having the Great Council and they were universially sought for advice and council. After the death of The Black Eye Karun, the council still remained as it was during his rule, and even though - as he predicted - the tribes all turned back to squabbling amounstst themselves.
That being said, here is a story that might make them fit in. Remember, not much is said about Kapou'e's father, nor is anything said about in which era SotBE takes place. That being said, here is a suggestion:
Black Eye Karun was the first orc ever in the history of the Northlands to unite all the different warring tribes of orcs uner one banner. His accomplishments as a Soverign were many, including ending the 15 year war with wesnoth. However, Karun was a far sighted individual and he knew that after his death the orcish tribes would once again turn to fighting amoungst themselves and there would be very little he could do to prevent that. He also knew that when orcs were fighting amoungst themselves, it would be easy for any strong kindgom like wesnoth to wipe them off the face of the continent. Consequeltey, he selected from amoungst all the different tribes six of the most sober and wisest orcs and thus created the great council. It was the Great Council's job to stay aloof from any tribal or territorial squabbling amoungst the orcs, but yet alwyas remain there to give advice to whomever came to seek it. In order to preserve the orcish race in the event of an emergency, he invested in them the power to call upon The Great Horde. It was established that every orc, no matter what tribe he came from, must obey the summons of The Great Horde and follow wholeheartedly the leader that the Great Council put at the head of The Great Horde. As time went on, even the most strong headed of the orcs saw the benifit of having the Great Council and they were universially sought for advice and council. After the death of The Black Eye Karun, the council still remained as it was during his rule, and even though - as he predicted - the tribes all turned back to squabbling amounstst themselves.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"
Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"
Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"
I don't see the orcs going into quarrels against each other... well, i do, but not constantly. I think it is more like the city-states of Greece as in "this is my tribe, and we are the best!", sometimes the thing scolates and challenges and ritual conflicts take place, and when it really got out of hand, tribe wars.
The orcs of Wesnoth seems too knowledgeable of the Art of War as to mindlessly fight among themselves constantly, after all, the best you get in a tribe is to be leading it, there is no "shogun" title which the strongest warlord achieves.
OTOH, don't let me stop you, i know i can't and this game has grown with user-created content. But i prefer to leave important history to the devs, wich is why i want to know if my thoughts for background are ok.
The orcs of Wesnoth seems too knowledgeable of the Art of War as to mindlessly fight among themselves constantly, after all, the best you get in a tribe is to be leading it, there is no "shogun" title which the strongest warlord achieves.
OTOH, don't let me stop you, i know i can't and this game has grown with user-created content. But i prefer to leave important history to the devs, wich is why i want to know if my thoughts for background are ok.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
That is exactally what I had in mind too. But the end result of the whole thing is that oftentimes when a particualr tribe is attacked, the tendency for the other tribes would be to let the tribe under attack get slaughtered because, "They're week and it severs them right. If the attackers come after OUR tribe, we are so great that we can handle them singlehandedley". If you look at Indian history for example, that's how all the small kingdoms were conquered by the mongals, and later on by the british - because there was no unity. In my "idea", the Karun foresaw this and created the Orcish Council to override any squabblings and temporarially unite all the orcs agaisnt the common enemy.Cuyo Quiz wrote:I don't see the orcs going into quarrels against each other... well, i do, but not constantly. I think it is more like the city-states of Greece as in "this is my tribe, and we are the best!", sometimes the thing scolates and challenges and ritual conflicts take place, and when it really got out of hand, tribe wars.
BTW, I am not trying to write history or anything here, I am just trying to make a suggestion to the devs wich might explain for the frailtiy and uselessness of the orcish shamons as opposed to the respect and protection that the orcs give them.The orcs of Wesnoth seems too knowledgeable of the Art of War as to mindlessly fight among themselves constantly, after all, the best you get in a tribe is to be leading it, there is no "shogun" title which the strongest warlord achieves.
OTOH, don't let me stop you, i know i can't and this game has grown with user-created content. But i prefer to leave important history to the devs, wich is why i want to know if my thoughts for background are ok.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"
Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"
Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"
That bit of orcish history seems solid and well thought out. Maybe add it to http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothHistory ?
This quote is not attributable to Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
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Dragon of Flame
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[quote="Taurus"]
6. Maby on level 4 we could create some effect that makes the hexes around them dark during the day, similar to a Mage of Light.[/quote]
That ability would be called "shadow cast"
Sorry for the late post.
6. Maby on level 4 we could create some effect that makes the hexes around them dark during the day, similar to a Mage of Light.[/quote]
That ability would be called "shadow cast"
Sorry for the late post.
I still don't understand economy. All our money is based on a shiny rock that's hard to find.
Thanks, I will. But I think i'll wait till I have "Son of the Black Eye" compleated first, since the two are a bit interwoven, then I'll add the whole thing if people like how the story gues. Unless someone else (probobally you since you were the one taking care of SotBE) have a different idea.ott wrote:That bit of orcish history seems solid and well thought out. Maybe add it to http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothHistory ?
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"
Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"
Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"
Lets give every unit the same skills so we can have all the units balanced...
STOP this....
The unit was designed for a purpose... if you it isn't suited for something else... bad luck.
Like trying to make Konrad line balanced... or the red dragon or...
Not all 2nd and 3rd level units should have the skill named in game as leadership, only ones expert in formal military tactics and leadership (military type). Hence "non formal leaders" like orcs dont usually have "leadership skill" even if they command thousands of warriors.
STOP this....
The unit was designed for a purpose... if you it isn't suited for something else... bad luck.
Like trying to make Konrad line balanced... or the red dragon or...
Not all 2nd and 3rd level units should have the skill named in game as leadership, only ones expert in formal military tactics and leadership (military type). Hence "non formal leaders" like orcs dont usually have "leadership skill" even if they command thousands of warriors.