The Archive of HODOR

[donkey_noob_trash1]

LET THERE BE HODOR!!

[donkey_noob_trash1]

Surely if some HODOR is good, more HODOR is even better! Can't have too much of a good thing, right?

HODOR_on_daggers_(1).gz

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[Noy]

In your case, you can.

Maybe you should learn how to play better normally, rather than going right for the hodor when your basic skills aren't up to scratch.

[leocrotta]

In your case, you can.
Maybe you should learn how to play better normally, rather than going right for the hodor when your basic skills aren't up to scratch.

In case of our unofficial missionaries of Hodor I believe that their fun factor probably couldn't rise more with a non-hodor approach.
Thus let them have fun, enjoy & win games mastering the arts of hodor and keep this archive alive.
Let there be Hodor! [who needs the rest?]

[donkey_noob_trash1]

In your case, you can.

Maybe you should learn how to play better normally, rather than going right for the hodor when your basic skills aren't up to scratch.

WTF???

I'm a psychologist by trade, and why a person would post this on an otherwise light-hearted thread about a fun, yet effective playing style baffles me. Arcane bang, it's a GAME!

Edited for language, replaced with synonyms. -Turuk

[donkey_noob_trash1]

I am going to reply to Noy's comment, although most people would not feel it merits one. Firstly, I am not sure who's skills you are referring to- mine or Foolsgold's. As for me, it is true that I'm not the best player on Wesnoth. I still have a lot to learn about how the game is played, and I am watching replays much more often these days because I realize it. Foolsgold is relatively new to the game as well, but I feel that using HODOR can teach a LOT to a new player about "basic skills" such as ZoC, controlling economy, the value of speed, the value of encircling enemies, the value of terrain, etc. Why you would have to play as other factions to learn such skills is not clear. Furthermore, I have used HODOR tactics to beat several highly ranked ladder opponents, including Elven King, Sweet (twice), WackererWichtel, and Zarak (a top 10 player, at one point). To say that HODOR cannot be used against even highly tallented players to good effect is a statement that has been repeatedly disproven. Also, consider my win recently against salvador (a 1800+ ladder player) on Silverhead Crossing as Orcs. A turn 7 victory, as I recall, which most would probably describe as at least a somewhat impressive win, considering the speed at which his army was destroyed and leader killed. No disrespect to salvador or the rest.

Much more importantly, Noy, I am concerned about your health in general. I seriously recommend that you see a physician or psychologist. Your tendency towards anger, impatience, and desire to either insult other players or help them when no help has been asked for reflects a pathology of some kind. Frankly, your social skills are poor at best, and I wonder about your life satisfaction in general. See a doctor. I would love to see what an emotionally balanced Noy is like, and I'm sure many other people would as well.

[Gauteamus]

Edited for language, replaced with synonyms. -Turuk

Why would the word VENISON offend anyone?

Anyway, as with all marks of tribal affiliation, HODOR is loaded with unwritten rules:

I) You should better win.
II) If you do not win, then it should better be because of intervention from the elder gods.
III) It is generally not possible to win at HODOR, not unlike the situation in other tribal mythos'*, like the serbs at the Battle of Kosovo, or Leonidas at Thermopylene.

*What is the plural of mythos?, my greek fails me.

[Thanatos]

Mythoi? If it is regular.
However, why not say Myths?

[Turuk]

Why would the word VENISON offend anyone?

Huh? What are you talking about?

[Argo]

Maybe you should learn how to play better normally, rather than going right for the hodor when your basic skills aren't up to scratch.

I have used HODOR tactics to beat several highly ranked ladder opponents

So guys, why dont you settle it in a duel and post the replay here?

[donkey_noob_trash1]

Maybe you should learn how to play better normally, rather than going right for the hodor when your basic skills aren't up to scratch.

I have used HODOR tactics to beat several highly ranked ladder opponents

So guys, why dont you settle it in a duel and post the replay here?

Because the ensuing battle wouldn't really prove anything, other than that Noy can beat me when I'm using HODOR (which I am quite sure he would). Other great players have beaten other great players using HODOR. It's a fact. But people don't use HODOR because it's an unbeatable playing style, they use it for the fun that goes with an outlaw-only recruitment. I dare say the very reason that there is an actual HODOR archive is because people love watching and playing this way. If Noy intended his message to be perceived as anything other than a cheap shot at my or FG's playing skill, he is truly clueless, because I can't think of a person who would think he was making a well-intentioned suggestion of how to spend their playing time.

[donkey_noob_trash1]

Gather 'round children of HODOR... a new HODORIAN amongst us has distinguished himself on the field of battle. I give you oesis' version of HODOR...

oesis vs Coriolan #13 (1908)

oesis_as_HODOR.gz

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An instant classic, to be sure!

[donkey_noob_trash1]

donkey_vs_winddog_(1).gz

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Despite my lack of basic skills, I have beaten winddog (1802 at the time)! On a side note, Sullas Ruins really favors HODOR I think. It's much harder to creat a big road block of troops to prevent any kind of maneuvering on this map.

[Des]

To say that HODOR cannot be used against even highly tallented players to good effect is a statement that has been repeatedly disproven.

Sure, it can be used. Is it viable to use all the time? No way.

I don't know about you, but every time I use HODOR, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. Thieves are your main damage output and can be easily killed in very few hits. Not to mention, they require backstab to produce maximum damage. A good player will ZoC well enough to prevent mass use of that. It also has very limited effects on narrower maps (Den of Onis, Weldyn Channel).

HODOR can obviously work, that's not the question here. I've beaten players using it myself. But just because it works doesn't mean it's always a viable strategy.

For one thing, repeatedly using HODOR neglects one of the most important aspects of strategy: the element of surprise. If your opponent knows what you're recruiting and knows how to counter, he will. From my observations, HODOR seems to do poorly against a wall of melee with magical support. And by not being able to react to your opponents counter because it goes against HODOR, you are limiting yourself.

At best, HODOR can catch an unsuspecting player off guard - their initial recruit and confusion will lead to their ultimate demise. But against a good player, it will force an immediate adaptation in recruitment and play-style. Sticking with the same three units at this point will put you at a severe disadvantage. Example: Your opponents starts backing up his melee wall with 2-3 Mages. Instead of getting an Ulf to keep them in check, you continue to recruit thieves that may or may not get by his wall of 20% increased damage-inflicting Spearmen. It's a risk like anything else: hoping your army of thieves won't get hit on 70% enough to stop them from backstabbing en mass. HODOR requires a more than average amount of luck to be a consistent, dependable strategy.

And what happens when your regular opponents know you for using HODOR too much? They will surely recruit against it at the start of the game.

I understand this is a fun thread and I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade (least of all you, donkey), but I think it needs stating that restricting yourself to certain units by using HODOR, like any other static recruit pattern, is not something that should be used exclusively if you are serious about winning games against decent opponents.

I, for one, would rather not be known as "the guy who always uses HODOR," or any other predictable recruit for that matter. The best play involves adaptation, and there is no room for that in HODOR.

Plus, dwarves are just too good to ignore


P.S.

I understand a ladder alias by the name of HODOR has beaten several decent players on the ladder. I believe that player to have superior skill in general than his opponents, which explains his incredibly good win percentage (probably a developer).

[ElvenKing]

Furthermore, I have used HODOR tactics to beat several highly ranked ladder opponents, including Elven King, Sweet (twice), WackererWichtel, and Zarak (a top 10 player, at one point). To say that HODOR cannot be used against even highly tallented players to good effect is a statement that has been repeatedly disproven.

I'd be careful about using highly ranked ladder players as examples. The ladder rankings are widely known as being somewhat inaccurate when actually compared with player skill. For instance, I'm not really that good; I reckon that I only play well in at most a quarter of my games. And from what I've seen Sweet still has a lot to learn(it has been a few weeks since I've seen Sweet play though). Haven't seen WackererWichtel play so I can't comment. Zarak is pretty good though.

I don't think Noy ever said that HODOR wasn't a viable strategy against top level players. Just that it might be a good idea to learn to play the basic game better, rather than focusing on HODOR all the time. I do agree it was a very combative(although I guess this is Noy were taking about, so that's probably not unusual) and strange, considering the the light-hearted tone of the thread, way to give advice; it makes me think that he wasn't being entirely serious.