New Campaign: Return of the Legions (0.2.5)

[zookeeper]

She? Oh... I thought it was a male hero. Anyway, I didn't mean undoing, but all moves were used up (had only used 3 moves to get there). Revealing fog doesn't remove all the move points...

Yeah, well, if you're getting a change at a bonus item then it's not too wrong to potentially have to waste a turn or two extra (for one unit) to get it. And yes, it's a she! I thought the name sort of gave it away even if the portrait didn't. Oh well, they're elves after all.

You should have seen the first scenario when I was still getting Rashdin to do his stuff with WML, not with the Python AI he now has.

Ah, I forgot about that... he never moved! I had to kill the necromancer myself, even though I freed the village. It was fine xp-wise, but cost me two extra turns and a drop from 50% to 25% bonus.

Hrrh...are you running a custom build, or do you use the official binaries? Rashdin should work ok if you just have python support built in.

Maybe the bonus fraction should be finer graded? So that when I miss the limit for 50% by one turn, I don't drop all the way to 25%?

I thought about that, but I decided it would have been just a little bit too complicated to communicate to the player. I might try again in the future, of course. I originally started with an idea that the bonus percentage would gradually drop from 50% to 0% during a given range of turns, but it was annoying to do without being able to divide in WML (and I actually like the current one better anyway since it makes a ranking system idea I've been thinking about for a long time easier to implement, if I decide to implement it in this campaign).

Non-combat themes? What are you referring too?

The council scenarios (and Revelation) should have different, more simpler UI themes (as in [theme]s).

[tsr]

Ah, I forgot about that... he never moved! I had to kill the necromancer myself, even though I freed the village. It was fine xp-wise, but cost me two extra turns and a drop from 50% to 25% bonus.

Hrrh...are you running a custom build, or do you use the official binaries? Rashdin should work ok if you just have python support built in.

Maybe you should state something about this in the prolog/scenariodialog/campaign description?

/tsr

[Rhuvaen]

Yeah, well, if you're getting a change at a bonus item then it's not too wrong to potentially have to waste a turn or two extra (for one unit) to get it.

My point was that a unit that got it didn't waste any time (could move on), while a unit getting the can't use message couldn't. I agree with you otherwise.

Hrrh...are you running a custom build, or do you use the official binaries? Rashdin should work ok if you just have python support built in.

I have a custom build of 1.1.10. I do have python on my system, but maybe the support didn't get enabled?

Code: Select all

PYTHON=''
PYTHON_CFLAGS=''
PYTHON_FALSE=''
PYTHON_LIBS=''
PYTHON_TRUE='#'

Hm. I don't know how to read this but I can't see any reference to library paths or anything. Do I need to use a config option to enable python support?

(Anyway, I started the second scenario with a Druid precisely because Rashdin didn't move )

Non-combat themes? What are you referring too?

The council scenarios (and Revelation) should have different, more simpler UI themes (as in [theme]s).[/quote]It would be great if one could show the messages in a panel for such scenarios, for instance (to display the map and text at the same time). Like some old ultima-style RPG's did.

[zookeeper]

Hrrh...are you running a custom build, or do you use the official binaries? Rashdin should work ok if you just have python support built in.

I have a custom build of 1.1.10. I do have python on my system, but maybe the support didn't get enabled?

Code: Select all

PYTHON=''
PYTHON_CFLAGS=''
PYTHON_FALSE=''
PYTHON_LIBS=''
PYTHON_TRUE='#'

Hm. I don't know how to read this but I can't see any reference to library paths or anything. Do I need to use a config option to enable python support?

I'd guess you need something like that. However, I don't really know much about this stuff, sorry.

It would be great if one could show the messages in a panel for such scenarios, for instance (to display the map and text at the same time). Like some old ultima-style RPG's did.

I don't think that can be done, really...but I think I managed to position the maps in the council scenarios so that the [message]s never obstruct anything interesting (the castle used to be positioned at the top before so that the [message]s would always block it and all the characters ).

Maybe you should state something about this in the prolog/scenariodialog/campaign description?

Yeah, that would be good. I hope I can find some way of doing it or getting such a way implemented (being able to do something like #ifdef PYTHON_ENABLED for example would be great) ...

[Chris NS]

I've had a go at the first three scenarios. I certainly like the idea of this campaign, and there's some interesting settings for the campaigns. However, there seems to be an annoying bug in the first scenario where the silver mage just stands there like an idiot instead of teleporting and killing the necromancer like he said he would.

I didn't get past the third scenario because this one seems to be too hard. Even building up a reasonable force, there are just too many enemies to beat. Am I missing something there?

[zookeeper]

I've had a go at the first three scenarios. I certainly like the idea of this campaign, and there's some interesting settings for the campaigns. However, there seems to be an annoying bug in the first scenario where the silver mage just stands there like an idiot instead of teleporting and killing the necromancer like he said he would.

Some people seem to be having some trouble with Python AI's. What is your OS and do you use an official binary or have you built the game yourself?

I didn't get past the third scenario because this one seems to be too hard. Even building up a reasonable force, there are just too many enemies to beat. Am I missing something there?

Not sure. I don't recall anyone saying it would be especially hard before. It should be rather simple if you just don't rush into the swarm of assassins, spearmen and whatnot but pick them off trying to keep to the forests as much as possible.

[Chris NS]

I'm using Fedora Core 5, but since there is no known development rpm for FC5, I'm using the OpenSUSE rpm, which so far has worked fine.

I'll give the thrid scenario another go at some point.

[zookeeper]

I'm using Fedora Core 5, but since there is no known development rpm for FC5, I'm using the OpenSUSE rpm, which so far has worked fine.

Right...well, it seems the python support is still rather unstable across platforms, which is a shame. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can really do about it, except try to display a warning when starting the campaign if python isn't working ok (I think I could write an invisible test for it that would be run when the campaign starts, but I haven't tried it yet).

I'll give the thrid scenario another go at some point.

Assuming that you're playing on easy, there really shouldn't be too many enemies (considering that the swarm of goblins and assassins is quite weak), unless I've messed something up (like made a typo that gives the AI 10x more resources on easy...). I find that a bit unlikely, but I'll double-check that tomorrow when I get back home.

[Chris NS]

I've now finished this campaign, and I remain impressed. Out of all the UMCs I've tried so far, this is easily the most playable, interesting and well-written storywise. Also liked the interesting variety of reappearing characters, and not the the usual 3-4 heroes plus the ace baddie. The only thing I wasn't sure about is the lengthly speeches in the last narrative scenario. I prefer to keep complex bits of storylines in as few message boxes as needed. If you are going to keep that bit of the story that long, it might be better to do it as a "story" section.

I think I've spotted the culprit in the first scenario. When I take the village I'm supposed to take then leave it, the event that's supposed to hand the village to Rashdin isn't firing up. Hope that can be fixed because it's skipping a bit of the story.

The other observation is that compared to the equivalent scenarios on "Heir to the Throne" this early on in the campaign, comparing easy to easy these scenarios seem to be considerably harder. I don't know if that was the intention, or if it's because I'm unused to fog of war, but I'm regularly losing valuable units in the early scenarios.

Anyway, keep it up. Look forward to the rest of the campaign.

[Oreb]

Hint: I sacrifice the loyalist units when I play through it now, since I know they will be lost and are not worth upgrading. The first time I actually played it, I got a Royal Guard and Shock Trooper, and they left me!

[Chris NS]

They do reappear later on to help you fight the undead and saracens though. Anyway, I consider sending units to their deaths because they leave later as unsporting behaviour.

[zookeeper]

I've now finished this campaign, and I remain impressed. Out of all the UMCs I've tried so far, this is easily the most playable, interesting and well-written storywise. Also liked the interesting variety of reappearing characters, and not the the usual 3-4 heroes plus the ace baddie. The only thing I wasn't sure about is the lengthly speeches in the last narrative scenario. I prefer to keep complex bits of storylines in as few message boxes as needed. If you are going to keep that bit of the story that long, it might be better to do it as a "story" section.

Thanks! There isn't much of a narrator in the campaign (except in the introduction), so it would IMO feel a bit odd to suddenly use a story screen for the plot and dialogue. Anyway, something to consider still, as that scenario has too much talk even in my own opinion.

I think I've spotted the culprit in the first scenario. When I take the village I'm supposed to take then leave it, the event that's supposed to hand the village to Rashdin isn't firing up. Hope that can be fixed because it's skipping a bit of the story.

That's funny...the problem might have been caused by there being a unit in the castle/encampment hex adjacent to the village - I hadn't removed an old conditional I had that tested whether the route to Nurinamor was clear (in addition to the village being clear), and that could have prevented the village swap from taking place. Anyway, I don't think that conditional is needed anymore since the Python AI should take care of the checks, so I've removed it now.

The other observation is that compared to the equivalent scenarios on "Heir to the Throne" this early on in the campaign, comparing easy to easy these scenarios seem to be considerably harder. I don't know if that was the intention, or if it's because I'm unused to fog of war, but I'm regularly losing valuable units in the early scenarios.

I've recently done some experimentation on things like letting enemies recruit a few lvl2 units (like for example in the second scenario, the orcs can recruit one lvl2 troll and one goblin pillager, etc) and having some of the enemies' recruits start with a random amount of XP - this should bring some variety to tactics, as the player might now need to prevent some enemy unit from getting even a single kill from one of his cannon fodder units to keep it from leveling, and to have the occasional higher level unit to deal with. Now, this sounds like it has nothing to do with what you said, but: I'll probably start the proper balancing after the next release or two, when I see how these experiments have worked out and how they affect the current balance. So, the next version or two might actually be even a bit harder than the current version (sorry ), but I'll start proper balancing after that.

Hint: I sacrifice the loyalist units when I play through it now, since I know they will be lost and are not worth upgrading. The first time I actually played it, I got a Royal Guard and Shock Trooper, and they left me!

Yeah, it's a bit lame that you lose them. It probably should be changed so that if you get Jolietateau, you get his remaining loyalists, too. But then again, not getting him would be a really bad option, so maybe I have to change saving him to be mandatory, too.

[martenzo]

One thing I noticed, the silver mage doesn't teleport, I lost the entire bonus waiting for him to teleport in the first scenario.

[zookeeper]

One thing I noticed, the silver mage doesn't teleport, I lost the entire bonus waiting for him to teleport in the first scenario.

I think I'll have an alert be popped up if Python isn't working right in the first scenario, as it seems so many people have problems with it.

[RedLTeut]

One thing I noticed, the silver mage doesn't teleport, I lost the entire bonus waiting for him to teleport in the first scenario.

I think I'll have an alert be popped up if Python isn't working right in the first scenario, as it seems so many people have problems with it.

Maybe he didn't teleport because the tile near the enemy leader was taken?

I have some gripe of my own: on easy, it was very hard for me to complete "the mouldering barrow" because everyone including the scorpions seems to know where my leader(on the run) is. (I ended in turn ten, but didnt get much money off it.)