The Qesicans (Development Stage: Art/Submission to the EE)
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Thanks weeksy!
Well I inked out many of the bugs, and now its playable (As far as I can tell)
The download is on the front post below the unit tree.
First Impressions:
The qesicans die. A lot.
The Qesicans Level. A lot (So far so good, although Level 2's tend to die as often as level 1's - but that fits because replacing them is less difficult.)
The qesicans do FEEL like they always have the right tool for the job, though using that tool before it dies, or putting it in the right place at the right time is a bit of a gamble
I'm unsure about current costs, they may need to be adjusted, right now they feel a bit expensive in relation to other factions for the power given. But - they're combos work wonders.
I'll try to put it on the server - just as soon as I find out how.
-Qes
EDIT/ADD: Ok, I just thomped the AI. This is no big issue. But I thomped em Gooood. When I had 3 level 3s, and about 6 level twos on a 30x30 100gp 2/village 70% exp map - in which with other factions i rarly get 2's and never 3's. It was glorious. the downside is that level 2's still die almost as often as level ones. Level 3's on the other hand, well they're very impresively uber.
It seems like the goal is to hit the Qesican's quick and hard - and DO NOT let them out manuver you.
THe humble scout, for all the 3-2 impact ranged slow he does, is VERY fast, and VERY manuverable. He takes towns, Period. No, you cant stop him unless you kill him, and he's rather hard to pin down and kill. On the bright side, he's not like the steppe hunter where he's mean enough to kill things regularly. He's litterally a scout and only a scout, his exp is low enough to level him if he gets in those last few HP's worth of damage for a kill, but not very often.
The pebblemancer is almost exactly what I wanted. She's either hard hitting or precise, but you've always the choice. Frail - she's easy to kill, but that's the idea. She can still get the "strong" trait - but since adjusting all of my stuff, it doesnt make a big difference, because her melee damages are 8-2 instead of 2-8. 9-2 is much more reasonable than 3-8.
So she may not need to have that changed, although in reality - she's not using her physical strength to lift or do combat, so she still SHOULD have it removed as a trait, I just dont know how to do that, and am glad for the time being that its not a severe issue.
The monks are best costed at 18. I was initially annoyed because i wanted to have "more" of them - but after having seen their abilities and supplemental qualities in action now, their cost is definately remaining at 18.
The roundsheild at 17 still seems 'almost' too high. They dont do much damage, but they can take punishment. Still, having too many of them would be wrong, so it'll stay where it is for now.
The poor ballista. These things die. All the time. Their costs will not be raised, because they simply cant live. However, if protected and used only as offensive units, you can level them. Once leveled, they become MUCH nastier - several fold more powerful. The Alchemist is nothing to write home about, but it's an 8-5 ranged at level 2. That's nifty considering its fire damage, the added gain of an 8-3 fire blade is also nice, but not what makes him druelworthy.
The Ballistaen is slow as molassass, but is essentially what it looks like - a piece of artillery. It doesnt need charge, its options will kill nearly anything, however its lack of speed and suseptability to fire damge made it a favorite target of the drakes - and thus was never made again (despite its awesome damage TO said drakes)
The Archalchemist is a beast. 4 types of attacks, 2 elements, both ranges. You have exactly what you need when you need it. He's almost broken - almost. It's hard to get to him, considering how frail the Ballista and Alchemist are.
Never got to use a Cavalier - scouts die, they dont really level much. Did get one to the Falankir, and one to the Straife. The straife was killed by a berzerker (no melee attack - just died), the falankir is a moderate cavalryman. (Nothing to write home about)
The Monks:
The Standard Daian Monk is an all around decent unit. 4-4 isnt much damage, if he's strong its nice. His healing is his best quality, along with generally surviving. It's painful to lose one however, as they're not cheap enough to throw away.
When they level, its always fun - so many options!
The staff monk is very defensible, but still tends to die faster than a level 1 roundsheild (which is appropriate) considering it does way more damage and has "slow". The blade monk i wasnt able to test, and the daiso monk, is a fantastic healer. It doesnt get attacked much because it doesnt have much in the way's of threatening damage or low HP - but it IS the bane of the undead. Arcane ranged damage makes the undead cry, add impact/slows/firststrike to his normal "empty hand" attacks, and he is the nemesis of undead.
The master monk I only got near the end of the game - because it takes forever to level a level 2 monk to master monk status (compared to other qesican units) - but as well it should be, it can litterally do everything, magical, arcane, slows, firststrike, range - its a beast. It's a good thing that the game is won or lost FAR before they typically appear on the field. Still - not alot of HP for a level 3, that slow keeps it alive, without it it'd be a target.
The shield line does exactly what it's meant to - and never does much damage, even as a Greatsheild. Though - trying to kill one takes an army, and a few turns. (IT does die eventually without support, however)
The freedmen die, but they usually poison something before doing so. That was the pure purpose of them, and they preform admirably. I did get a journeyman, who died just as fast as his lesser cousin, so I never did get to see a constable. (City-guards) Sitting them in villages would be the equivalent of giving the opponent the finger.
Those are just my first impressions facing the AI. I plan on putting it up so people can try them out with me, just as soon as I figure out how.
-Qes
Well I inked out many of the bugs, and now its playable (As far as I can tell)
The download is on the front post below the unit tree.
First Impressions:
The qesicans die. A lot.
The Qesicans Level. A lot (So far so good, although Level 2's tend to die as often as level 1's - but that fits because replacing them is less difficult.)
The qesicans do FEEL like they always have the right tool for the job, though using that tool before it dies, or putting it in the right place at the right time is a bit of a gamble
I'm unsure about current costs, they may need to be adjusted, right now they feel a bit expensive in relation to other factions for the power given. But - they're combos work wonders.
I'll try to put it on the server - just as soon as I find out how.
-Qes
EDIT/ADD: Ok, I just thomped the AI. This is no big issue. But I thomped em Gooood. When I had 3 level 3s, and about 6 level twos on a 30x30 100gp 2/village 70% exp map - in which with other factions i rarly get 2's and never 3's. It was glorious. the downside is that level 2's still die almost as often as level ones. Level 3's on the other hand, well they're very impresively uber.
It seems like the goal is to hit the Qesican's quick and hard - and DO NOT let them out manuver you.
THe humble scout, for all the 3-2 impact ranged slow he does, is VERY fast, and VERY manuverable. He takes towns, Period. No, you cant stop him unless you kill him, and he's rather hard to pin down and kill. On the bright side, he's not like the steppe hunter where he's mean enough to kill things regularly. He's litterally a scout and only a scout, his exp is low enough to level him if he gets in those last few HP's worth of damage for a kill, but not very often.
The pebblemancer is almost exactly what I wanted. She's either hard hitting or precise, but you've always the choice. Frail - she's easy to kill, but that's the idea. She can still get the "strong" trait - but since adjusting all of my stuff, it doesnt make a big difference, because her melee damages are 8-2 instead of 2-8. 9-2 is much more reasonable than 3-8.
So she may not need to have that changed, although in reality - she's not using her physical strength to lift or do combat, so she still SHOULD have it removed as a trait, I just dont know how to do that, and am glad for the time being that its not a severe issue.
The monks are best costed at 18. I was initially annoyed because i wanted to have "more" of them - but after having seen their abilities and supplemental qualities in action now, their cost is definately remaining at 18.
The roundsheild at 17 still seems 'almost' too high. They dont do much damage, but they can take punishment. Still, having too many of them would be wrong, so it'll stay where it is for now.
The poor ballista. These things die. All the time. Their costs will not be raised, because they simply cant live. However, if protected and used only as offensive units, you can level them. Once leveled, they become MUCH nastier - several fold more powerful. The Alchemist is nothing to write home about, but it's an 8-5 ranged at level 2. That's nifty considering its fire damage, the added gain of an 8-3 fire blade is also nice, but not what makes him druelworthy.
The Ballistaen is slow as molassass, but is essentially what it looks like - a piece of artillery. It doesnt need charge, its options will kill nearly anything, however its lack of speed and suseptability to fire damge made it a favorite target of the drakes - and thus was never made again (despite its awesome damage TO said drakes)
The Archalchemist is a beast. 4 types of attacks, 2 elements, both ranges. You have exactly what you need when you need it. He's almost broken - almost. It's hard to get to him, considering how frail the Ballista and Alchemist are.
Never got to use a Cavalier - scouts die, they dont really level much. Did get one to the Falankir, and one to the Straife. The straife was killed by a berzerker (no melee attack - just died), the falankir is a moderate cavalryman. (Nothing to write home about)
The Monks:
The Standard Daian Monk is an all around decent unit. 4-4 isnt much damage, if he's strong its nice. His healing is his best quality, along with generally surviving. It's painful to lose one however, as they're not cheap enough to throw away.
When they level, its always fun - so many options!
The staff monk is very defensible, but still tends to die faster than a level 1 roundsheild (which is appropriate) considering it does way more damage and has "slow". The blade monk i wasnt able to test, and the daiso monk, is a fantastic healer. It doesnt get attacked much because it doesnt have much in the way's of threatening damage or low HP - but it IS the bane of the undead. Arcane ranged damage makes the undead cry, add impact/slows/firststrike to his normal "empty hand" attacks, and he is the nemesis of undead.
The master monk I only got near the end of the game - because it takes forever to level a level 2 monk to master monk status (compared to other qesican units) - but as well it should be, it can litterally do everything, magical, arcane, slows, firststrike, range - its a beast. It's a good thing that the game is won or lost FAR before they typically appear on the field. Still - not alot of HP for a level 3, that slow keeps it alive, without it it'd be a target.
The shield line does exactly what it's meant to - and never does much damage, even as a Greatsheild. Though - trying to kill one takes an army, and a few turns. (IT does die eventually without support, however)
The freedmen die, but they usually poison something before doing so. That was the pure purpose of them, and they preform admirably. I did get a journeyman, who died just as fast as his lesser cousin, so I never did get to see a constable. (City-guards) Sitting them in villages would be the equivalent of giving the opponent the finger.
Those are just my first impressions facing the AI. I plan on putting it up so people can try them out with me, just as soon as I figure out how.
-Qes
Yes I use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Publishing Problem:
"Publish Campaign" isnt an option that I see anywhere in the add-on's section. How does one publish?
-Qes
The Campaign Server
The campaign server is the preferred way to distribute your creations, but it is more suited for larger projects. It currently lacks advanced organization features such as filtering and reviewing, so adding hundreds of little things makes it harder to find anything. Basically, the server should not be used to post single maps, units, songs, or artwork, but map packs, campaigns, entire eras, music packs, and unit packs are fine.
Once you are ready to publish, here is how you access the campaign server:
1. Open Wesnoth
2. Select "Get Add-ons" from the main menu
3. Select "Publish Campaign: Your Campaign Name" (the last entry in the list of campaigns)
"Publish Campaign" isnt an option that I see anywhere in the add-on's section. How does one publish?
-Qes
Yes I use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
in the same place as your main.cfg file put a main.pbl file
it should look like this:
it should look like this:
Code: Select all
description="descriptive statement that is short"
passphrase="secret_code_word"
title="New Scenario Name"
icon=location_of_image_file
version=X.xx
author="your name here"
happy timezone traveler
And LO, because you all rock and are awesome with helping me....
IT IS PUBLISHED and ripe for ridicule and scrutiny!
Let the feasting hordes decend upon it like vultures on dead meat.
Let the storm decend and send this precious vessel off the edge of the map!
Let someone who has art skill take pity upon me.
Enjoy everyone. I'll keep the first post "technicalites" up-to-date as best I can.
The workbench should/will contain all current unit infos.
If anyone has ideas, be sure to post.
-Qes
IT IS PUBLISHED and ripe for ridicule and scrutiny!
Let the feasting hordes decend upon it like vultures on dead meat.
Let the storm decend and send this precious vessel off the edge of the map!
Let someone who has art skill take pity upon me.
Enjoy everyone. I'll keep the first post "technicalites" up-to-date as best I can.
The workbench should/will contain all current unit infos.
If anyone has ideas, be sure to post.
-Qes
Last edited by Qes on August 26th, 2007, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes I use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Well it seems to be working (and while debugging I did notice that).lu_zero wrote:remember that non idiotic file systems are CaSe SensitivE...
Playing against the Qesicans: (First Impressions)
Hit them hard and hit them fast. They cannot win an economic war if they don't expand quickly - which they're very good at.
They also tend to annoy the ever living crap out of you (as an AI), because they always have whatever it is that you dont want them to use right at the moment you dont want them to use it.
Having a ballista near by when you've got a wounded unit, is a near-death sentence for said wounded unit.
The roundsheilds are roadblocks - not hard to get around in open terrain, but close up that terrain and they're effective walls.
The pebblemancers are not anything to be too weary of - but dont attack them unless you can kill them, and even then you WILL take damage.
Monks. Tough and heal their allies. Used in tight formations, very scary, out and about on their own, easily picked off.
Scouts - holy crap these are annoying. They...dont kill anything, but they zip around, steal your towns, pin and slow you. All the while letting the Qesicans know exactly what your doing (with "quick" they move 10
- this doesnt mean much until you realize they go through forests and hills like butter - they also take that "extra hit" to kill, so they usually survive to run away.Level2's
Level ones are almost auxilleries. THey're job is to stay together and GET to level 2. The level 2's are the "main" units, of the qesicans it appears. Because they come out frequently, and once around, you actually have to do something about them.
The Ballistaen is a BEAST. It...it just hurts things...very very badly. Even the poor drakes couldnt fight them in numbers. 39-1, and 13-4 are scary numbers, considering most "fire" damage is ranged, the Ballistaen gives as much as it gets before it goes. - It's best to attack with melee, 3-4 defenses doesnt mean much, but KILL it before it gets a turn.
Alchemists - OW. They throw fire pots. Said fire pots BURN. Easy enough to pick off with melee, especially cavalry, but still a nasty surprize if you didnt see them coming.
So far it seems like the Jahnaka Ballista levels the MOST. Alchemists and Ballista galore. However, for every one that levels, about 2-3 die. Monks seem to level the second most often - mostly because they live long enough to do so, followed closely by the Shieldsmen. Scouts never seem to level. Despite being hard to kill and low XP numbers, they dont ever do much damage, so they rarely get the kill shots. As such they dont level often. The mancers get very close to leveling a LOT, then get killed by something. I've seen pure white bars on the pebblemancers only to be killed that round, over and over again. I suspect the AI's treatment of that unit would be less than a humans, and so all those "almosts" would become reality.
The one battlemancer in the game (their king) wasn't too nasty by himself, but when surrounded, that combination of slowing enemeis and leadership DOES make one question approaching the area.
All in all, playing with Qesican's seems to make EVERYONE level faster. The qesicans themselves level quickly, but lose many units which in turns levels the enemy fairly quickly. The Qesican's rely on expansion and their scouts to maintain their economy (which the scouts can almost do single handedly - running from village to village ignoring most all battle) and then the rest of their army seeks out other armies to destroy.
This technique is sometimes used with vampire bats. But not even the humble bat can compare to the sheer speed at which the scout takes, holds, and accumulates village-possession.
The pressence of Qesican scouts in a game almost requires that you put a defender - however modest, in the villages you intend to keep. Because if you dont, a scout WILL be able to get into it - live for a turn, and move on to the next village out of your range. They can take villages faster (depending on numbers) than you can reclaim them - all of this with minimal or NO battle.
That being said, if you can stifle the scouts, (kill them when able, keep villages and towns defended, etc) the Qesican's lack the funds to continue their assaults unabated. When the Qesican's and I clashed the first time (I played the Aragwaith) they zipped around, took my stuff, and then I drove them off (mimimal casualties on all sides), then the Outlaws to my south started some harassment and I went south to deal with them.
During this time - I had a large enough visual radius to watch the drakes and Qesican's duke it out. It was effectively even (mostly grassland fights). Considering how open the terrain was, I would have figured the Drakes would be at more of a disadvantage, but they were not.
The interesting thing about the Qesicans, is that one moment they're completely down and destroyed - the next they're back up to full capasity followed by supreme power, then back down to destroyed again.
This leads me to the conclusion that not only do the Qesicans adapt VERY quickly, but they NEED to - or they die. Unless scout levels remain at a constant - they die from lack of funds, unless they can adapt to the units of the opponant on the field, they die and have to rebuild.
All in all, thanks to Clonkinator and others, I think that the faction is very well near balanced. The only tests that remain are primarily human v. human. (The best, perhaps only real way)
They definately feel different. The only way to get a "normal" feel from other factions is if you build lots of shieldsmen and pebblemancers. Even then it's a bit strange.
More as it develops,
-Qes
Yes I use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Do you remember which files you had to monkey with? If you've a list I can try to work it so that its easier for others.lu_zero wrote:comments from me:
the units are quite frail, overall they are balanced enough and all of them are useful
Also - yeah, they're frail, but they've the right tool most of the time - "somewhere."
-Qes
Yes I use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
If you've already done it, please upload and I'll overwrite my own fileslu_zero wrote:to make things consistent I put:
all in images/ lowercase
updated the units conf files accordingly
set the right path in the faction/era files
.Thanks again!
-Qes
Yes I use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.
