Legend of the Invincibles

[Ashes]

Crafting the item I named Dugi's Wrath is intentionally nearly impossible. It's meant to be a coveted trophy for compulsive farmers.

In my previous game, I managed to get one at the end of chapter 9. I chose a bow to put it on an unit with distant attack But at that moment I did not need additional items. If I had waited until chapter 10, Dugi's Wrath would have made a difference there.

I do not disagree with giving items as a part of early finish bonus. Estimating the enemy spawn ability to learn the number of items you would probably get is hard, though. Some stuff could be just added to your inventory after showing you what you got, that's not a problem.
Maybe sum for each side( enemy income / average enemy recruit level) * chance that an enemy drops an item * some constant might look good, but it does not account for random spawns and such. It would have to be set for each scenario, but I would need a list of scenarios with estimates for each. It should be also dependant on difficulty...

I can make a script that counts how many items and gems I have at the end of each scenario.
With enough statistics (from farmers) you may be able to avoid to do the computations.


Another remark: both Efraim (demi-god) and Lethalia (demi-god) have legacies. It would make sense if they are not random legacies, but always the Legacy of Phoenix.

And some remarks on "parry":
- when my Champion kills an enemy because of a "parry" hit, he does not gain any xp. Is it intended?
- when my Champion with Aevyn's Wrath (cold damage) hits because of parry, he can suck the enemy. Why does the parry hit make a different type of damage than the regular hit? I understand that the damage amount is different because parry does not take resistance into account, but I don't see any rationale for changing the type of damage.

On an unrelated note:
Although many issues were not dealt with yet, I might make an update soon because the number of fixes I have done from the last update is quite large. Any complains?

I like the "release often" strategy.
Could you recall which are the changes between the current version and the next one?
I have uploaded the patch I currently use: a modification of the "unit info" display of advancements taken, and a modification of items.cfg to allow a Chaos Rider to carry a crossbow (instead of needing to keep the crossbow he carried when being a Cavalier).

[Whiskeyjack]

The Reapear dont need any armor, he is already really powerfull thanks to drain and weapon.

Are you successfully using a Reaper in Inferno on a difficulty higher than easy without giving it the special protection a frail unit like a healer might need? If so, I retract my statement and concede that it was just me not being able to make it work, otherwise I´d daresay that this is not accurate.

Another remark: both Efraim (demi-god) and Lethalia (demi-god) have legacies. It would make sense if they are not random legacies, but always the Legacy of Phoenix.

While I do not see the need for it to be Phoenix, that is the most fitting and it would prevent some of the rather awkward combinations they might get (and any kind of Dragon-breaths are just not necessary on them as they can get everything anyway). It would also be very usefull, as Phoenix is one of the best defensive AMLAs IMO (no penalties and quite a good boost for fire and arcane resistance, which is awesome against demons) - which is nice, because from my experience taking defensive AMLAs just isn´t worth it for Eph and Leth in most cases, as the offensive ones are just so much more usefull (and so many in numbers...) -> I like the idea!

[Dugi]

Okay, so,

I made traders sell also gems. Obsidian costs 5 gold, black pearl costs 2000 gold, other prices are approximately a geometric sequence. They still cannot be killed to get the gold back.

I added also a fire/cold/arcane resistance AMLA to Reaper.

Dugi,can you make a craftable item type for Dragon Rider's bite?

Dragon s bite is already really usefull, I see no need for weapon.

What now?

And,why is Shadow Prince magic blast doesn't have magical weapon special?,It should have it because as the name suggested,magic blast...

It's on purpose, I wanted to give him a magical replacement for his sling. I didn't give him the magical weapon special because it would either do too little base damage or do really a lot of damage against most enemies.

And,I can give Faerie Incarnation an otherworldy essence item but it doesn't shows up on the screen(the vine whip does get stronger but it doesn't change name to the item I gave her).

Because it's considered a spell.

Can anyone tell how to get to the Execrable Sanctum?I'm stuck in the Inferno...

Have you found the Pillar in Gathering Alcove? You will never find Execrable Sanctum without manipulating that thing.

Dugi,after playing The Beautiful Child,I have an idea,what if you make another sequel with the appearance of King of Darkness(evil side of Efraim)?

Well, you baffled me by reinventing the wheel. Yes, I do plan to place him somewhere once. However, there are events to happen before that occurs. His arrival must be dramatic and grandiose.

It would be just orc based campain, about a shaman who want to take a revenge on Lethalia for genociding his tribe. But to be strong enough he needs some special powers so he searches the wise shaman (and poet) Han Šan...

Uhm, I didn't make up anything like this yet. I had some other ideas for that period of time. But if you want, you can write it, I will give you any advice you might need, from refining the story to coding.

I can make a script that counts how many items and gems I have at the end of each scenario.
With enough statistics (from farmers) you may be able to avoid to do the computations.

This could do. Let's get it started.

Another remark: both Efraim (demi-god) and Lethalia (demi-god) have legacies. It would make sense if they are not random legacies, but always the Legacy of Phoenix.

I think that non-constant legacy adds to replayability. In LotI, you have it random, in its two spin-offs, you can choose. Maybe you could be given a choice in LotI too?

when my Champion kills an enemy because of a "parry" hit, he does not gain any xp. Is it intended?

Nope, I'll have a look at it.

Could you recall which are the changes between the current version and the next one?

I can't quite remember the details, but this is the changelog at the moment of writing this:

Code: Select all

Empowered most redeem-AMLA
Added a new crafting recipe
Added some new items
Traders now sell also gems, prices increase roughly with geometric sequence
Sling weapons now can improve attacks with net
Spiritual essence weapons now can improve attacks with torch
Added dodge and magic resistance AMLA to Reaper
Fixed a bug causing some portals to be unusable in scenario Rush

I have uploaded the patch I currently use: a modification of the "unit info" display of advancements taken, and a modification of items.cfg to allow a Chaos Rider to carry a crossbow (instead of needing to keep the crossbow he carried when being a Cavalier).

Chaos Rider isn't going to be allowed to equip crossbows, that would require also allowing Shadow Princes to equip slings and allowing Liches to equip all kinds of stuff according to the unit type they originally were.
The unit info change was accepted.

[Delicius169]

To Reaper:
If you let him stand next to your leader, i think he can have 80% resistances on everyhing. At least I feel tha he had...
Ofcourse he cannot stand on his own, but most of my units cant do it. I remember that I ve equiped him with Amulet (+20% arcane) and ring (+20% arcane, sparkling ring?), and some cheap weapon- Murderlust, or something like that.

Well he died later because of demons, but it was my fault, I should have run away with him. (And I was lazy to reload)
But I think he is alread strong enough. I might do some experiment with him, I have plan to do nothing important till the end of the year. Then I have no time.

And 2000 gold is too much for for black pearl, I dont know where the merchants will be, but I see no possibility of buying at least one (how often do you have in a campain 2000gold? and I guess there will be no merchants in 5 and 9. chapter...)

Ok, Dugi, I will write down the base story ( in czech) and send it to you via PM.

[Whiskeyjack]

Dugi,can you make a craftable item type for Dragon Rider's bite?

Dragon s bite is already really usefull, I see no need for weapon.

What now?

I think this could be combined with Claws (now something like filed teeth/steel teeth/whatever). The dragon may not need this badly, but all kinds of wolf riders and the skeletal dragon in part I would greatly apreciate it (bats and the like might too, though I don´t think you can get them naturally).

If the dragon is too strong with a craftable weapon (he does get drain...), I think it would be better to implement this and nerf him slightly...

Ofcourse he cannot stand on his own, but most of my units cant do it. I remember that I ve equiped him with Amulet (+20% arcane) and ring (+20% arcane, sparkling ring?), and some cheap weapon- Murderlust, or something like that.

Well, but most units able to equip armor can be made to stand on their own - it´s just a question of how much you want it and how many gems/items you have. Not for soloing, but enough to survive a turn without aura (they´d still need healers later on if they get hit badly). And IMO the Reaper is a unit that should be able to survive a turn in the frontline (2/3 hexes open) without leaders - the Dark Shade not so much as the identity of that unit is a high damage assassin, but I think he has lower defenses anyway.

Merry Christmas all!

[Ashes]

I can make a script that counts how many items and gems I have at the end of each scenario.
With enough statistics (from farmers) you may be able to avoid to do the computations.

This could do. Let's get it started.

I don't promise to write the script in 2015, but I will provide it in 2016.
It should work on MacOSX (my platform) and Linux, but I will not be able to test it on Windows.
Which programming languague would you recommend to use? (I don't have any preferences, but I don't want to have to maintain the script).

Another remark: both Efraim (demi-god) and Lethalia (demi-god) have legacies. It would make sense if they are not random legacies, but always the Legacy of Phoenix.

I think that non-constant legacy adds to replayability. In LotI, you have it random, in its two spin-offs, you can choose. Maybe you could be given a choice in LotI too?

I support the idea of having a choice for legacies.
But in the case of Efraim and Lethalia, my proposal of forcing the Legacy of Phoenix has nothing to do with game balance. It is because they became demi-gods after having absorbed the ashes of a phoenix, and therefore IMHO they should have the legacy of the phoenix!

I have uploaded the patch I currently use: a modification of the "unit info" display of advancements taken, and a modification of items.cfg to allow a Chaos Rider to carry a crossbow (instead of needing to keep the crossbow he carried when being a Cavalier).

Chaos Rider isn't going to be allowed to equip crossbows, that would require also allowing Shadow Princes to equip slings and allowing Liches to equip all kinds of stuff according to the unit type they originally were.
The unit info change was accepted.

I agree that my change for the Chaos Rider is controversial. I made it because I did want to have the possibility of using "Unequip all items and put them into the item storage" without any adverse effect. I will try to see if I can modify this action in a way such that only equipabble items are unequipped.

[Dugi]

And 2000 gold is too much for for black pearl, I dont know where the merchants will be, but I see no possibility of buying at least one (how often do you have in a campain 2000gold? and I guess there will be no merchants in 5 and 9. chapter...)

There are three traders in chapter 5, by the way.
It's unlikely that you will have that many gold when meeting a trader, but again, black pearls should be the hardest gems to obtain. You will be able to get other high gems.

Ok, Dugi, I will write down the base story ( in czech) and send it to you via PM.

Fine.

I don't promise to write the script in 2015, but I will provide it in 2016.
It should work on MacOSX (my platform) and Linux, but I will not be able to test it on Windows.

I use Linux, so if it's something to be sent just to me, it's okay.

It is because they became demi-gods after having absorbed the ashes of a phoenix, and therefore IMHO they should have the legacy of the phoenix!

I understand, but I think that it restricts the gameplay.

I will try to see if I can modify this action in a way such that only equipabble items are unequipped.

Okay.

Merry Christmas all!

Seconded.

I have made today's update a Christmas update. There are 20 new items. Enjoy.
Also, I have added an option to disable attacks from being used for retaliation. Find it in the items menu.

[Ashes]

I have made the update. Thank you Dugi, this is the first Christmas gift I received this year.

Merry Christmas all!

[Whiskeyjack]

Invalid markup in End of the World (last text upon winning): There is an "i" missing in the brackets for italic text.

[Karmic]

Dugi, thanks for the update! I'm afraid leaders still seem to be passive though. I am trying to run the whole thing from the beginning as save the replays for walkthroughs/comparisons but I just feel bad when the toughest enemies on the field won't fight.

I parked a walking corpse next to the orc warlord in scenario 3 Betrayed and he wouldn't even take a swing at my poor suicidal undead.

[nachkar]

Hi there, first of all thanks for LotI, been playing it for years and thanks for the wonderful Christmas update Dugi ! I'm one of those idiots who's played enough wesnoth for a lifetime, enough loti for two, and has given up entirely... on the first only. Was waiting these last two months on an update for my next LotI play.

A few comments/questions :

1) Is the warlock's speed attack a merge thing? Was sad I couldn't boost it's power trought +attacks (or was that a bug? only tried with dark helm of destruction). Also still about warlock, afterwards I did some debug testing (as its not a unit I had ever tried before) and stumbled upon the following : if you want to make a purely antisocial warlock (by wich I mean legacy of the exile and some other stuffs going along with the theme), at some point if it gets too much xp, the last AMLA's to take would be to reduce the antisocial penalty then remove it (2amla) for a big damage loss. Wich points to the following question : Isn't it sad to force the player to, at some point, make such a choice? Couldn't you put some extra AMLA in that's remove that choice? Apologies if that's been talked about before, I remember some warlock talks months back in here but couldnt find it back
And as a suggestion/proposal to fix the above :
- If speed is indeed a merge attack, the antisocial+speed being not that strong+weak basic res makes the warlock only so-so in my opinion, could it perhaps use an AMLA (or perhaps even an AMLA line) that further boosts the antisocial thing? And if you're afraid it'd be too strong, I'm sure you could put some serious disadvantages, like not only allies but also itself being weaker next to allies, or -res for allies (ouch), or if possible extend the range to 2 units around character (that'd be something !). Of course, this amla/line would remove the "reduce/remove antisocial" thing, thus also fixing the problem posted before.

I don't have any others in mind right now, but are there other such units where at some point the only AMLA's left are those that force player to drastically change the character's theme/interest (excluding legacies ofc) ? If so, could use the same treatment in my opinion..

2) Gems at vendors, as requested by users, is cool but there SHOULD be a limit to how many you can buy I believe. The expensive price on the powe'rful ones are nice, but still i was able to easely make 1k400 gold in the desert long map (early c5), and felt that buying tons of ruby/diamond/pearls and so on to go from "having a few items" to "can craft anything not super late game" was a bit TOO strong an upgrade. Still a great idea, just maybe only 1 gem of each? Pretty powerful to fill the crafting needs of the moment or stack up for later, just not instantly craft 5xLightning agility + other luxury/useful small items


And questions for players : how much do you guys try and go for highlander for making the strongest units? I gave up very quickly as I feel its kinda impossible to get highlander+the wanted legacy, but hey what's your opinion? Also do you ever take anything else then intelligent/resilient or do you also favor other combinations ? (I'm especially thinking of Fearless + Int or Res, or perhaps even Loyal tho I've never felt upkeep to be a big negating factor in loti)
For the veterans, what do you guys go with on Efraim/Lethalia ? Tried a few various things on my last playtroughs and felt mixed about many results. Any opinion(s) yet on the updated redeems? (alright that's probably TOO early to ask lol)

[nuorc]

And questions for players : how much do you guys try and go for highlander for making the strongest units? I gave up very quickly as I feel its kinda impossible to get highlander+the wanted legacy, but hey what's your opinion? Also do you ever take anything else then intelligent/resilient or do you also favor other combinations ? (I'm especially thinking of Fearless + Int or Res, or perhaps even Loyal tho I've never felt upkeep to be a big negating factor in loti)

Again I feel like I'm not picky enough about the troops I command; or maybe just less picky then some of you. I never ditched a unit because of the legacy, I never put an extra effort into a highlander, I don't even go for special combinations. My favorite though pretty clearly is quick; if the unit can't get into the desired position, everything else doesn't really matter too much. (I try to get my pedestrians to 8MP asap...)

I often have the feeling that a unit's usefulness greatly depends on if I happen to have the right weapon for it.

[Xellos]

nachkar:
I spend all my cash to buy new units because i like highlander .I have fun when i can create some good set of skills like Warlock with highlander and Legacy of Exile and royal diadem (-30% Leadership, -20% leadership and +20% leadership so the game pick only best bonus easy way to create good leader and remove few penalties)

"Gems at vendors, ... Pretty powerful to fill the crafting needs of the moment or stack up for later, just not instantly craft 5xLightning agility + other luxury/useful small items"
I think that is ok. Lightning agility means more fun mostly( because generally boots with +2 movement are better). I wont help you with killing and winning. because generally there is enough time to win without army with 8+ movement.

"For the veterans, what do you guys go with on Efraim/Lethalia ? Tried a few various things on my last playtroughs and felt mixed about many results. Any opinion(s) yet on the updated redeems? (alright that's probably TOO early to ask lol)"
Well... Check if Improved Weapons still affect melee and ranged attacks (Efraim). As long as you can get AMLA +2 to melee and ranged weapons or +1 to melee and ranged attacks(sword and knife) other attacks will be useless for him.
I see 1 problem with Redeem magic attacks for Demi-goods:
Efraim can buy Improved Weapons to gain bonuses for both melee and ranged. And he cant use staves.
Lethalia cant use Improved Weapons to gain both bonuses but she can use staves.

Something about Balance:
Either magic attacks from Redeems will be good for her and useless for Efraim or they will too powerfull (Lethalia) and good (Efraim). (OK i know that Sword of Destruction and rest of this set if incredibly powerful and because of this set Efraim probably is better at using magic but sometimes its hard to get this set .

I think that Improved Weapons should affect only Melee attacks (maybe it should give two additional AMLA's : 1 for melee and 1 for ranged weapons).
OR Lethalia should be able to gain some melee spell so she will be able to use Improved Magic to gain both bonuses.

[nachkar]

Also, for Dugi,

The Elvish Nightprowler has a slight problem : when advancing an elsvish avenger to it, there are two versions available. I didn't see any difference between the two, though maybe there is in the number of available AMLA's ? I remember a slight change a few months back then about that, maybe both the previous and new versions are available ?

[Xellos]

Dugi:
There is a problem with Exterminator unit.
This unit has a knife attack with marksman special rule and AMLA to give marksman for this attack second time.