Faction: Kedari (Arabian Nights-based)

[Temuchin Khan]

Sounds good. And since there seems to be no hope of getting my "Eunuch Beaurocrat" in, I'll drop it. It's been getting difficult to justify his inclusion anyway.

Use "Immortal" in place of "Elite", and the tree you've suggested here, and I think we've got a pretty good faction going!

Now if only we had some art!

[ozymandias]

Hmm, I'm not sure about mixing Janissarys and Mamelukes with Immortals, as the Janissary's were AFAIK elite slaves for the Ottoman Empire, as the Mamelukes were for the Arabs earlier, both interestingly formed from non-muslims initially. Their main advantage were their loyalty to the central power instead of local and tribal ties. Also, Wikipedia tells me the janissary's were mainly archers, while Mamluks usually were cavallry.

The Immortals, on the other hand, had their time a couple of centuries earlier in the Greek-Persian wars and consisted exclusively of Persians.

So I'd suggest using the name Janissary for the archer line and Mamluk for the melee units, and not naming them Immortals. Rather call the lvl3 guardian Immortal, although that doesn't fit with him advancing from an Eunuch.

[Temuchin Khan]

If we REALLY want to be historically accurate, the Mamelukes are Russians and Bulgarians and Turks who were sold to the Arabs by the Mongols! And the Janissaries are European boys confiscated from their parents to be raised as Muslims and trained to be elite troops!

I have long resigned myself to the fact that we won't get a perfectly historical faction, just one that comes reasonably close.

[Cuyo Quiz]

Sad fact is that all the Indus valley tribes are virtually unknown when it comes to contact with others or warfare, they seemed to be very passive. Persians before Zaratustra isn't well known either.

That is why i think we can take some liberty on the subject. Specially since the Persian army was really from mixed tribes, so before that (if we want to keep it in time with Romans and the Far East) allows to take some ideas in the misterious tribal times.

No worries, Sheiks and Eunuchs are fairly well-known, so they oculd be in the "time frame" (this is a game people). We may want to change the name Mameluk or Janissary though, just to stick to the ancient times.

I think i'll have to learn GIMP now to make something resembling unit images, anyone caring to tell me how intuitive is?.

EDIT: I've noticed Azhur, thread starter, has posted only twice in the thread, and that he wanted to animate and statify the faction. Out of my respect for the idea: What do you think until now?, because it seems me and Temuchin are...well, finished.

[Temuchin Khan]

Yes, Azhur! Please tell us what you think of how we've developed your idea!

And if we're doing a "broad sweep of Middle Eastern history and mythology" faction, which seems to be what this has become, then we can take some another hint from the Persians:

Light Footman -> ????? -> Immortal

Light Bowman -> Cardaces -> ?????

EDIT: Or, given that the Immortals were equipped with both spear and bow, and that the Cardaces are described in some sources as infantry and in others as archers, perhaps we should combine the archer and infantry lines:

Light Footman -> Cardaces -> Immortal

[Cuyo Quiz]

I saw a web trying to define the Cardaces for a miniature army (the name comes from their tribe, and are also know as kurds). Seems that Cardaces were actually infantry hoplite-like (to support greek mercenaries) soldiers and pestalt-like soldiers armed with javelins and often with throwing straps. There seemed to be Cardaces archers too.

So we may have Cardace melee troops (shield,spear and sword) and Cardace pestalt troops (small shield and javelins).

EDIT: I think i like the merging. In the first two levels they would have swords and javelins (which can double as a short spear for pierce), and in the end they could have bows (allowing them to do more ranged shots that a javelin allows).

[Temuchin Khan]

Well, for those who are interested, the ancient writers themselves disagreed about the identity of the Cardaces. Arrian described them as "hoplites," Callisthenes as "peltasts," and Strabo as young Persians trained to use bow and javelin who, from the age of twenty could serve in the military as either infantry or cavalry.*

So they might not have been Kurds after all!

*source: J.F.C. Fuller, one of the most prominent military historians of the early-to-mid twentieth century. When the Germans developed Blitzkrieg, they were reading Fuller.

Anyway, the current (and I do believe final!) tree is:

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi (line uses sword and bow; good on sand and plains)
-> Sheik -> Sultan (gains leadership)
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior (uses spear, good on sand and in hills)
Sufi -> Dervish -> Rasul (has healing and leadership)
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn (fire spells; gains arms as it advances)
Desert Lad [lvl 0]
-> Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi (poisoner; secondary berserk attack)
-> Eunuch Guardian -> Eunuch Warder (throws "fire pots")
Light Footman -> Cardaces -> Immortal (lower level use javlin and spear; Immortal uses bow and spear)

Also, it seems to me that this faction should be neutral rather than either lawful or chaotic.

If I had the time, I'd be willing to try my hand at pixel art just to get this faction worked up. But with around a hundred pages to read per day for summer classes, I don't think I have time to learn a new skill!

[Azhur]

I've been doing my Military Service for the past two weeks, and I'm surprised of the popularity of this thread. During the following six months I can only work during weekends, so this project can hardly go on without the help of the others.

And back to the topic...

So many branches to choose from...

Temuchin's branch seems to be quite close to the goal, though there are some minor issues to be dealt with. I hate the term of Desert Lad and I think that Eunuch should be Maghrabi's lvl 0 unit. The Fire pot-weapon was something I couldn't have ever figured out, so all the credits to the one who made that up.

I'll be editing this post soon, but I better read this thread again first.

EDIT: How about this for the leader evolving:

Caliph -> Sheik -> Sultan?

[Temuchin Khan]

Good to hear from you!

Temuchin's branch seems to be quite close to the goal, though there are some minor issues to be dealt with. I hate the term of Desert Lad and I think that Eunuch should be Maghrabi's lvl 0 unit. The Fire pot-weapon was something I couldn't have ever figured out, so all the credits to the one who made that up.

Yeah, I tried to be as faithful as I could to the original idea, even with certain modifications. The reason I didn't make the eunuch a level 0 unit was because no one starts life castrated. We could probably come up with a better term than "Desert Lad". I see all my ideas as suggestions that can be refined and/or revised. What about "Maghrabi Youth"?

Also, please think of the most recent suggestion as the most worthy of consideration out of all the different versions I've proposed. That's how I see it -- the result of a long process of refinement.

I suggested the "fire pots" -- glad you like them!

[Cuyo Quiz]

Temuchin is right. It has been a process of refinement, in the end, each unit should have a role and we couldn't go unit crazy.

Merging the leader with the cavalry was more of an idea that just stuck. Specially since Sheiks and Sultans were known for their fine horse breeds.

In the end, all wrapped up in some kind of free interpretation of the Indus Tribes.

Now i think i'll post the latest tree in code, just because i like the green letters.

Code: Select all

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi -- sword and bow, good on sand and plains
              -> Sheik -> Sultan -- gains leadership 
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills 
Sufi -> Dervish -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership 
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- fire spells; gains arms as it advances
Desert Lad (lvl0) -> Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack 
                  -> Eunuch Guardian -> Eunuch Warder -- throws "fire pots", may have steadfast to differentiate from Ifrit
Light Footman -> Cardaces -> Immortal -- lower level use javelin and spear; Immortal uses bow and spear

We may divide the light footmen line in two for more specialized units, just as we may do the same with the Sheik line.

Immortal is there for lack of a more flavorful term for a special cadre of troops.

[Azhur]

Code: Select all

Desert Raider -> Spahi -> Ghazi -- sword and bow, good on sand and plains
              -> Sheik -> Sultan -- gains leadership 
Camel Rider -> Cameleer -> Camel Warrior -- wields spear; best on sand and hills 
Sufi -> Dervish -> Rasul -- healer; has leadership 
Ifrit -> Genie -> Djinn -- fire spells; gains arms as it advances
Desert Lad (lvl0) -> Hashishan -> Ismaili -> Mahdi -- poisoner; has secondary berserk attack 
                  -> Eunuch Guardian -> Eunuch Warder -- throws "fire pots", may have steadfast to differentiate from Ifrit
Light Footman -> Cardaces -> Immortal -- lower level use javelin and spear; Immortal uses bow and spear

That code-form is sure much easier to follow. Now we got a leader and five normal units.. it's something to begin with. Now I'm off to the service, until I come back on friday evening.

[krak]

Spahi -> Ghazi

They are Turkish units not Arabic, especially Ottoman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spahi

Light Footman -> Janissary -> Elite Janissary

Janissary also a Turkish (Ottoman) unit with gunpowder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary

Sufi -> Dervish -> Rasul

Sufi is bigger than Dervish and it can be described as Muslim saint and the starting position of being a sufi is called murid

Murid -> Dervish -> Sufi

for Murid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murid

[Temuchin Khan]

krak, interesting points. Here's my take:

What is the Arabic for "young man"? Azhur isn't satisfied with my term "Desert Lad" for one of the units.

Doesn't "ghazi" come from Arabic "ghazu" ("raid")?

Yes, Spahis were Turkish units. We've also been looking at using Persian infantry (Light Footman -> Cardaces -> Immortal). The idea seems to have grown into a generally Middle-Easternish faction, with an emphasis on Arab Muslims, but not an exclusive focus.

The corps of Janissaries had a long history. Not all were musketeers. Besides, the latest version of our tree has cut the Janissaries in favor of ancient Persian infantrymen.

How about this for our prophet unit, building on krak's suggestion?

Murid -> Dervish -> Sufi -> Rasul

[krak]

Using prophet or word like rasul can easily be misunderstood by muslim Wesnoth players. We can use murshid instead of this lvl4 holy man. Murshids are like Delfador and teaches the way to their murids. for murshids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murshid
Other name for murshids is shaikh which is your default leader as shown there:

-> Sheik -> Sultan

And other units like janisserries or spahies are also students of this holy man, he motives troops for holy war.
A popular murshid can be known as Mevlana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevlana

Mevlana was also a Whirling Dervish. We can use a whirling animation for his holy attack:

[Cuyo Quiz]

That was what i thought, a ranged holy attack, but i haven't made up my mind in the melee combat, would they defend themselves or get the chance to focus for a melee holy attack?.

It comes to that kind of things about Ifrit melee (fire too or two melee options?). The hasihsan i guess would be poisoning with a dagger (just to ensure they die) and going berserk with a saber.