Trolls in Wesnoth

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 5th, 2005, 3:36 pm

We could just wait until Jetryl or someone else gives us the essay on the species of Wesnoth.

But that would be waiting until 1.0, at least. So take some ideas in the meantime.

Tippsey · Post by **Tippsey** » July 5th, 2005, 5:46 pm

Meh I think we're looking at trolls as dumber then a sack of hammers, and as for a gorrilla not being able to use a javelin , if they can learn sign language i think they can learn to correctly impale someone. Hell with a troll's regenerating flesh he'ld probably have a quite long life span and if not slaughtered early like most trolls, learn quite a few things. Troll's are uncultured and not the brightest things, but they could learn things and get at least a tribal society going for themselves with basic weapons. With help they might even become some of the best warriors out there. Hell that could be a campaign by itself, humans training trolls to use as the ultimate weapons of war. Only of course the trolls turn on their creators somewhere in the campaign. Although it wouldn't allow for a whole troll faction it would allow for some new units for a single campaign.

Ryorin · Post by **Ryorin** » July 5th, 2005, 10:45 pm

tomsik wrote:
Cuyo Quiz wrote:
I think they could get away with throwing spears, with GREAT force.

they have to make spears before, i dont think trolls are so intellingent Smile
A freking neanderthal could make a spear and considering they have warriors troll smust be at least that smart.
oh and goat foam trools in lotr CAN talk and use weapons. read the hobbit.

In the Hobbit these three Trolls are mentioned as being our equivalent of a "Mental Giant". The average Troll in Middle Earth COULD NOT talk. They were never granted life by Iluvatar/Eru (Depending upon your prefered translation). Thus no life, no sentience, no intelligence.

And as for why these three could talk, don't ask me. It's never mentioned why in the books. Just that they could.

Post by **turin** » July 5th, 2005, 10:55 pm

Those trolls could talk because when The Hobbit was originally written, it was not meant to be part of the world of the Silmarillion. Then, when Tolkien decided to have Lord of the Rings be based on both, he decided to use the Silmarillion version of trolls, not the The Hobbit version.The point is, though, that by merging the two worlds, he created many inconsistencies.

specops · Post by **specops** » July 5th, 2005, 11:14 pm

Tippsey wrote: as for a gorrilla not being able to use a javelin , if they can learn sign language i think they can learn to correctly impale someone.

Javelin isn't really the same as aÃ‚Â spear. Throwing a javelin with accuracy is a lot more difficult than running someone through from 5 feet away.

I just think that most troll weapons would be of the bludgeoning-everywhere-and-hit-them-so-hard-they-don't-wanna-get-up-again type. So super impact.

Goatfoam · Post by **Goatfoam** » July 6th, 2005, 1:37 am

The Hobbit, to me, was always more of a kid's book anyway. It was basically an elaborate fairy tale. Anyway, since Tolkien's inconsistencies are a definite factor, I suppose it's just opinion on which way you go. After reading Lord of the Rings, it's kind of a nice thought to picture Tolkien writing the Hobbit as Bilbo, as There and Back Again, so could have possibly elaborated somewhat on the Trolls in Roast Mutton. Way off, possibly, but a nice thought.

Another Troll weapon could be a length of chain/bola/net, that Slows the target. Or you could just have plain old rocks for lobbing. Since Trolls are so huge in the Westnoth setting, how about giving some of them First Strike, on account of reach? Or Troll Berserkers with Charge, of course.

Tippsey · Post by **Tippsey** » July 6th, 2005, 1:56 am

Hmmm sure it's more difficult to throw it correctly, but is it harder then learning sign language? I think not. Also impaling someone can be done from range or in melee combat, so I never was refering to a spear.

DarthRevan00m9 · Post by **DarthRevan00m9** » July 6th, 2005, 3:30 am

Guys, I personally believe the only reason trolls have been portraid as dumb is because no one has really portraid as smart. They are HUGE which means they should be dumb to balance them out. But they could be reasonably intelligent. At least intelligent enough to make a sword or a spear! I dont care about Lord of the Rings. Its a great base for any fantesy world but it dosent mean we have to follow it to the letter. I am going to make the Trolls about as smart as the orc's from Warcraft.

finny_01 · Post by **finny_01** » July 6th, 2005, 12:40 pm

Learning sign language and throwing things well use two different skill sets, so you can't really assume that if Trolls do one, they can do the other particularly well. Also, aren't Trolls really big? would the Troll "Javelin" actually be a log? Would Trolls be disciplined enough to go beyond "bash'em" tactics? It seems that there are already Saurians, and Orcs, if you add a Troll army, then you may just be diluting Wesnoth, kind of like Wahammer40k having a new army every year.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 6th, 2005, 2:58 pm

Guys, I personally believe the only reason trolls have been portraid as dumb is because no one has really portraid as smart. They are HUGE which means they should be dumb to balance them out. But they could be reasonably intelligent. At least intelligent enough to make a sword or a spear! I dont care about Lord of the Rings. Its a great base for any fantesy world but it dosent mean we have to follow it to the letter. I am going to make the Trolls about as smart as the orc's from Warcraft.

This is the advantage of not being chained by some books. Hooray for free creativity.

Now, no thing ensures these will be official Wesnoth. But at least Darwin won't be rolling in his grave this time.I hope.

DarthRevan00m9 · Post by **DarthRevan00m9** » July 6th, 2005, 7:06 pm

Darwin? Darwin was wrong. He himself addmitted that if no proof was found to support evolution then there was no possible way that it was true. Evolution can make some great fiction but thats it. Evolution has no scientifc leg to stand on. If anyone ever investigates evolution closely and doesnt JUST listen to what their teachers tell them u can see there r TONS of holes in this theory.

Post by **wayfarer** » July 6th, 2005, 7:37 pm

DarthRevan00m9 wrote:Darwin? Darwin was wrong. He himself addmitted that if no proof was found to support evolution then there was no possible way that it was true. Evolution can make some great fiction but thats it. Evolution has no scientifc leg to stand on. If anyone ever investigates evolution closely and doesnt JUST listen to what their teachers tell them u can see there r TONS of holes in this theory.

He had some of his theories by a hunter in South America who catched rare animals for scientists in England. The hunter developed some ideas about the evolution of animals and Darwin adopted it in his work. Yes their are some holes in these theories for example the human connectors but most stuff is prooved. Some others couldnÃ‚Â´t be because the connectors couldnÃ‚Â´t be found but what are some thousand years.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 6th, 2005, 8:44 pm

DarthRevan00m9 wrote:Darwin? Darwin was wrong. He himself addmitted that if no proof was found to support evolution then there was no possible way that it was true. Evolution can make some great fiction but thats it. Evolution has no scientifc leg to stand on. If anyone ever investigates evolution closely and doesnt JUST listen to what their teachers tell them u can see there r TONS of holes in this theory.

I don't know what exactly you're referring to by "evolution" (which makes it impossible to refute what you say --- I should remember this tactic for my next stupid debate), but in any case, there are many parts of the theory of evolution which are not only taken to be true by the vast majority of the scientific community, but is also scientifically proven.[1] Then, there are other parts, which many morons accept because they've been taught it, many other morons reject because they've been taught that, and the very few sensible people who are left are divided about as evenly as any random even division among sensible people you can get.

I generally accept it, in the first place because I have seen no non-circumstantial evidence against it, and secondly because I find that the people who reject it are more moronic than the people who accept it.

However, I/we don't want to get into a debate about it!

[1]"scientific proof" is not really the oxymoron it appears; "scientific" is a qualifier which states that the proof is not really proof, alleviating the illogic.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » July 6th, 2005, 8:45 pm

Yes i know the theory has holes.

I just love the euphemism of Darwin generating energy by rolling on his grave because of cases like the Wesnoth's trolls.

Tippsey · Post by **Tippsey** » July 6th, 2005, 8:49 pm

....Actually the size of trolls has never been determined. If wer'e going by lotr or Dnd there somewhere around 10-15 feet tall. So take your normal javelin and double or triple it's size. So still quite big but no log. As for skill sets gorillas can also be taught to use tools so if were going to continue this yes a gorrila can eb taught to throw the darn pointy stick correctly. Also Gorrilas have used team oriented tactics before so yes they have the ability to work together and think. Course then I belive a troll is as smart as an orc not a gorilla. Sure they bash things with fists but they call it a troll whelp for a reason. Most young people use fists in a fight rather then pull out a knife and stick them. Troll upgrades get weapons and then armor because there adult trolls and have learned such things. So yes if someone taught them tactics and how to use a weapon they would use it and slash, hack, pummel etc. As for a troll caster since I don't see where they would get a magic education they would probably just be much older trolls who happened upon it, and since due to there cellular regeneration they would never die of old age or feel the effects of it they could spend quite a longer time learning how to use it. And one last thing leave the poor gorrillas and your misconceptions about them alone. There not as dumb as the average pet for god sakes.

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Trolls in Wesnoth

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