Inky's Quest - The Cuttlefish Campaign

[bigkahuna]

It started out better, but here's a placeholder clam.

That looks like one of those ruffle Lays

I've done a try for this clam. It's doesn't have the correct prespective but maybe It can help you.

That looks REALLY good. It's a bit too big, but a bit smaller in a S-E perspective would look awesome. Also the ridges on the bottom are not as pronounced as on top. I really like the shading in the mouth.

[perseo]

Yes, The problem, is that i done a bigger size image, and when I cut it i destroy the feet. But I'll fix it and I develop the animations if Telchin asks me for it.

[Reepurr]

perseo, your clam isn't actually a proper Wesnoth sprite (as far as I know). And did you scale it down from something larger?
• It has a lot of randomly scattered shades. That suggests it used to be a JPEG which is a bad way to get a sprite.
• It faces south not southeast.
• The shading's not all coming from the top right.
• The picture isn't the right size. (It's not tall enough.)
• The shadow doesn't actually go under the clam.
• Sprites are generally a lot more top-down than this, so it would look really weird.

[perseo]

I've never said that my clam is

a proper Wesnoth sprite

When I posted it I said something like that:

I've done a try for this clam

If the campaign creator like it I'll do a sprite but otherwise is faster to do what I do that a proper sprite.

PD: I now how to do sprites, I've readen the rules of the wiki.

[Telchin]

It looks like my crude attempt at art has caused a sudden burst of activity in this thread.

lower level clams should be smaller, not different colors.

I lacked the patience to start a new sprite from scratch and the skill to make the higher level look differently.

Real giant clams are long-lived (can be over 100 years old) and take forever to grow. In the space of the campaign time, they wouldn't change. I suggest making them level 2 or level 3, period.

I like the idea of them starting as level 2, but I'd like them to be able to level up, so any experience given to them isn't wasted.

Have you thought about Cuttlefish Spawn? Level 0, no ZOC, absurdly cheap and weak, more so than other level 0's. For what it's worth, real cuttlefish lay about 200 eggs, and the hatchlings are miniature versions of the adults.

I have thought of a level 0 tentacle (that would evolve to either Trench Tentacle or Magic Tentacle). However, I'm not sure if I want level 0 at all. This campaign isn't Northern Rebirth.

If you're going to make Giant Clams be really slow (like 1 MP), you'll want to add a scenario where they could do some good and maybe be essential to winning. A defensive struggle centered at the keep would suit them.

I don't like the idea of having mere 1 MP, as I think it would make them almost useless. According to Wikipedia the Giant Clams cannot move, but other bivalves can, so a mobile clam isn't completely stupid idea (also WINR). My thoughts on stats:

• Deepsea movetype, 5(or 4?) MP, so they're slower than tentacles, but not as crippled as 1 MP would be.
• Deepsea resistances, but with added 20% to pierce (and perhaps to fire?) and Steadfast
• Melee attack by clapping its shell. It would be either impact or blade (impact is better against the undead, but all your units already have impact for melee). It would have only 2 strikes (as closing the shell should be slow), but either good damage or slow (the idea would be that it traps an enemy's limb inside. However, you already have slow in Markscuttlefish, so probably just good damage).
• Ranged attack by shooting a (giant) pearl. It would be either pierce or impact (same reasoning as above). Ot would have only one strike (as pearls take time to grow), but high damage (mollusc thunderer? )

However, I'm not sure if such unit wouldn't be overpowered.

I would suggest more monstrous sounding names like: Gaaaaaa, Raaaaaa, Daaaaaa, Kaaaaaa. If I'm imagining a Giant Clam talking, I think that is about the best they could do. You could even have a character Gaaaaaa whose only line of dialog (repeatedly) is "Gaaaaaa!", which Seahead would interpret intelligibly, like "Yes, I agree. We can't hope to beat them on land."

I like this idea! I think it reminds me of Star Wars.

I like the second scenario as is. I can't think of any other Wesnoth scenario that is similar.

Have you played Heir to the Throne? I got the "kill N enemies" idea from the penultimate scenario (Test of the Clans). If you (and presumably other poeople) like the current second scenario, I will keep it. However, I still need an idea how to introduce the Clams. Such scenerio should take place between A Water Struggle and Inky Goes Fishing, as I think the rest of campaign is too tightly linked.

I previously thought that level 2 and 3 Markscuttlefish were overpowered (slow and marksmanship and finally concealment),

I think they're overpowered too. I started with a cuttlefish with lower HP and melee, nut higher ranged. Then I added marksman because it has a synergy with poison. Then I thought "It would be cool if they could entangle their nemies with their tentacles" and added slow. Then I thought "Why can't they submerge? They don't breath air!" Maybe adding submerge to Kraken too?


@ Reepurr and perseo
you have clearly more artistic talent than me. I like the Reepurr's one more as it has better perspective. If I use it I will mention you in the credits (but I'm not sure when the Clams will be added).
Note for everybody with graphical skills: I think that Master Sea Head needs a better sprite. The campaign also doesn't have any custom portraits or story images, but I think that may wait (and I assume that painting a big picture is harder than a sprite).

[perseo]

When you say Master Sea Head you mean the giant cuttlefish ¿no?. I don't know exactcly what kind of creature you want: A giant cuttlefish, a giant head...

[Mountain_King]

Here's a unfinished sprite for a sea head Eternal or someone was working on some years back. I haven't managed to separate it from the background image due to other important things in life, but here you are.

Iku Turso_demo.PNG (176.31 KiB) Viewed 5438 times

[perseo]

I understand you. It musn't look like a cuttlefish. It's only a giant full of tentacles head.

[Telchin]

@perseo
Master Sea Head is a cephalopode so big, that his head and tentacles count as separate units. So yes, his sprite should be only the head, tentacles aren't necessary (note that he attacks with his beak). So yes, a giant head of a sea monster (with the rest supposedly submerged. He should look like a cephalopode, but if he looks more like a cuttlefish or an octopus isn't important (as you can buy unlimited number of tentacles anyway).

@mountain king
Isn't it the Vendeeni HQ from Galactic Empires Era?

[homunculus]

maybe use scallop for the lower level?
btw, swimming scallop video, quite fun imho.
and, btw, i was thinking of drawing some squids back then, but it was unclear what squids they should be exactly (i usually prefer to use video references from youtube).
or maybe you just don't like the classification tree based upgrades.
and, as for balancing the marksman and poison and whatever attacks, poison is actually really in the bite, not in the ink.
if someone would have an idea what the ink could do instead of poison, i think making it more correct might not necessarily be bad.
as far as i understand, the octopus is quite helpless when tossed around in water without much to stick to with tentacles, and the whole octopus monstrosity looks more like a paper tiger thing that survives by having a lot of tricks in the sleeve.

as for drawing the giant clam--argh, peeps, cant you try to use some guides, even very rough ones are often better than nothing even if it just helps you to focus, it all becomes a lot easier when you have something to start from.
like those very rough guides:

clamguides.png (1.03 KiB) Viewed 5384 times

and my take on the giant clam:

clam.png (1.7 KiB) Viewed 5384 times

edit: looked at the clam again, and it seemed that the shading of the shell made the shape of it look incorrect.
attempted to correct it, but i don't know if i could make it better.

clam2.png (1.83 KiB) Viewed 5370 times

[Reepurr]

Clam lipstick!
I'm sorry, but when I look at it (great by the way) I immediately think...
clam lipstick...

And also, clam mouths, even giant clams', are sort of wavy. Reference reference reference!

[homunculus]

Clam lipstick!
I'm sorry, but when I look at it (great by the way) I immediately think...
clam lipstick...

And also, clam mouths, even giant clams', are sort of wavy. Reference reference reference!

this was my reference.
it is a bit offtopic, but as a human (as opposed to umc contributor or something) i can understand why you might want to see the reference.

[Reepurr]

this was my reference

You might want to try an actual clam. Like these.

[homunculus]

this was my reference

You might want to try an actual clam. Like these.

yeah, i did look at those clams, looking at them was the very thing that gave me the glossy lips idea.

to be more precise about what this would be like, i have made a quick mockup of an animation (yeah, the animation isn't really smooth but jumps back and forth in some places and the colors and shading is messed up, but hopefully it clarifies what such thing would look like).

It looks like my crude attempt at art has caused a sudden burst of activity in this thread.

actually i think it is that you are finally attempting to specify, at least something.
though it seems we will need to relax and wait patiently for your opinions, maybe by the end of the next year we might come to a conclusion what the units and the sprites and the portraits should look like.
who knows, maybe it will take even longer at this rate.
some of us will probably have lost interest in wesnoth by that time, and some of us, sadly, might be dead.
cephalopod anim should be especially educating for spriters because it is mostly soft tissue and should therefore be good for learning the looney tunes style animation.

[Telchin]

I'm sorry for lack of responses in this thread in last two weeks, but I haven't done any progress. I didn't give up, I was simply too lazy and lacked inspiration . I like homunculus's giant clam so I might use it if I do the giant clam level, but I haven't started yet. Hopefully I make it before 1.10 is released.