Unfair/random fighting
Moderator: Forum Moderators
I actually like the sudden drop-off, because then the effect is more perceivable by the player. It also represents how a warrior can keep on fighting, ignoring fatigue, but that at some point it catches up with him - and often at the same time he loses hope. A gradual system has its merits too, though, so that's a matter of choice.Elvish Pillager wrote:Seems like a well-designed system, although IMO it should be more scalar. (not just an abrupt drop-off at 20.) Also, favoring units with more attacks is not-so-good.
Also, I didn't think of all the consequences of favoring units with more attacks (maybe they're already too powerful), but it does reflect the fact that it's harder to defend against a more agile unit. If you don't like that, you could just add one fatigue point per unit that attacks you, instead.
That favors high-damage units: I don't see how that's better than favoring units with many attacks. Besides, as hurleybird says, the most powerful attacks are not necessarily the hardest to defend against.My idea is as follows: Any attack increases fatigue by the amount of damage it would deal if it hit, multiplied by the defender's defense. Thus, fatigue is increased by the average damage of the attacking unit.
I must admit I was looking for some kind of equation - and you seem to be good at these. Thanks for that contribution. However I would like units to be unaffected by fatigue up to a certain level. Otherwise units will almost never do full damage, and that will just feel wrong - that's not my objective. In fact, I want only units that take a serious beating (such as those who are attacked from all sides) to be affected by fatigue: that was the original motivation.Then, the fatigue calculation: The unit does less damage with more fatigue. Its damage is multiplied by (fatigue/maxHP)x50%. So, a unit which has twice as much fatigue as its maximum HP, which must have been very lucky, would do no damage; and a unit which, on average, would have died, would do half damage.
I also notice that here you're favoring high health units: for me health is already enough of an advantage, I would like to put all units on an equal footing for fatigue resistance, except for max-level units with a lot of experience.
Again, a nice formula to round things up. I favors high-level units, which could be interesting. But isn't leveling up already a huge bonus? It will just dig the chasm between the different levels. Also, your formula doesn't take villages or healers into account. "Each turn without combat": this is an interesting difference from my system, where units recover some fatigue every turn, even if they fight. Somehow though, we have to prevent fatigue from building up too much, otherwise all units are gonna fight with reduced attacks after a while, and the battle will become really slow.Each turn without combat would decrease fatigue by 4 + 4*level.
I guess I'd like to see a fork with this system too, but the problem is that forks split peoples' efforts. I'm trying to design fatigue so that it affects only specific tactical situations (ie. ganging up on some unit or harrassing it): this way it should be acceptable into mainline Wesnoth. (I hope.)HOWEVER, all this would be a huge sideways step for the official Wesnoth version. I would definitely like to see a fork of the engine with this system implemented, though.
The system seems to be good. However, elves have what i call ¨the four attack army¨ which is of course, the combination of fighters and archers, so a unit could be put into fatigue fairly fast with elves in most cases.
OTOH, it would be nice to see that fencer or thief get tired everytime it dodges using their good defense rates.I think i may be with EP, it needs some testing in the end.
On the favoring certains units matter: I have no idea how to make it fair at the moment. Maybe just giving one fatigue for each unit attacking you and work accordingly from that.
On favoring more leveled units: This would make the units even more powerful, se it may be better to search for a general system which doesn't take level into account ( would being undead give u a bonus against fatigue acumulating?).
EDIT: We can argue if fatigue would make things more strategical or realistic, but first come with a simple system.
OTOH, it would be nice to see that fencer or thief get tired everytime it dodges using their good defense rates.I think i may be with EP, it needs some testing in the end.
On the favoring certains units matter: I have no idea how to make it fair at the moment. Maybe just giving one fatigue for each unit attacking you and work accordingly from that.
On favoring more leveled units: This would make the units even more powerful, se it may be better to search for a general system which doesn't take level into account ( would being undead give u a bonus against fatigue acumulating?).
EDIT: We can argue if fatigue would make things more strategical or realistic, but first come with a simple system.
Last edited by Cuyo Quiz on May 29th, 2005, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me 
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004

Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Yes, it does all even out but in multiplayer there are usually few critical moments where being lucky or unlucky can drastically swing the outcome of the game.egbert wrote:Won't it all balance out in the end anyway? Sometimes you get good luck, sometimes you get bad luck. It'll even out eventually.