The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

[Bennoman]

The thing is that you don't need to spend along time building the back story of the world, because we all ready are aware of it, we know what Wesnorth is like from the other campaigns, that is your back story there.

If you look at any disaster movie the set up is perhaps the first twenty to thirty minutes of the movie maximum before the disaster hits. During this set up time we are introduced to the characters and their relationships with each other. Thats your job as the story teller there, to set up the character dynamics and define their goals and motivations with one another. This can be done in just a handful of scenarios, and as I said you don't have to spend time describing the world because it has already been described in previous campaigns.

Finally if you writing a campaign about the fall the player will be expecting it to be about the fall. If they find that half of the game (if indeed the first part of the game) is about the adventures of some thief and his run in with the law, it will sure beg the question in their mind.... when is the good stuff going to happen?

This is a concept called Chekov's gun. Whereby if you introduce an a story element it is as foreshadowing of what will come. Checkov best describes it himself.

"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there."

In other words you cannot introduce the concept of the the raising of the third sun, and leave this plot device hanging there for half of the storyline.

[Pewskeepski]

If you look at any disaster movie the set up is perhaps the first twenty to thirty minutes of the movie maximum before the disaster hits. During this set up time we are introduced to the characters and their relationships with each other. Thats your job as the story teller there, to set up the character dynamics and define their goals and motivations with one another.

Which is exactly what I'm doing. The Scepter of Fire getting stolen is a big part of the story because it ends up in Evad's hands. The second sun gets raised very early in the campaign, and that is the first step that the player will recognize as the fall. After the second sun is raised, we get to know the characters more and are introduced to Wesnoth's lazy age. I actually couldn't do it in a few scenarios because a few years pass between the rising of the two suns and it would seem weird if there was just a few talk scenarios and then the narrative says "A few years have passed!" And as I said before, Evad getting the scepter is important.

you don't have to spend time describing the world because it has already been described in previous campaigns.

Absolutely. There's even going to be a notice before you start the campaign suggesting that you play all mainline campaigns before you play this. (With the exception of Under the Burning Suns)

Finally if you writing a campaign about the fall the player will be expecting it to be about the fall. If they find that half of the game (if indeed the first part of the game) is about the adventures of some thief and his run in with the law, it will sure beg the question in their mind.... when is the good stuff going to happen?

The good stuff is the raising of the suns, correct? The second sun gets raised early in the campaign and by the time that happens, you've gotten to know Alitar and will now be interested in his back story concerning his rivalry with Rovistar. There still will be that wait for the third sun trying to be raised, but I figured I'd use that to keep the player going. Gotta give him something to look forward to

Take The Rise of Wesnoth for example: You never fight Jevyan until the very end of the campaign but throughout the scenarios, you get to know him. The player soon finds himself saying/thinking "I just can't wait to fight him!" It's the same with Heir to the Throne. You hear a lot about how evil Asheviere (spelled right?) is but you don't actually see her until the end. But by then, you know why you should kill her. I this campaign's case, the 'bad guy' you meet at the end is the third sun. And the way you get to know it is by observing Wesnoth's lazy, and arrogant age.

[Bennoman]

A few questions, because when you are crafting a story like any thing else you want to remove the parts that are excessive or unnecessary.

Why is the secpter of fire in this campaign? what makes it essential to have a story about the end of the world suddenly become about an artifact?

Why is the character's rivalry with Rovistar absolutely necessary? What purpose does it serve in the story?

Why delay the event of the fall to so far into the narrative? This is a campaign about the fall so why delay it?

How will you show the fall? Remember this is a world ending even it has to be impressive beyond all conception. Why can you not leave it to the player's imagination which is always more powerful than what can be shown?

[Kuchen]

This is a concept called Chekov’s gun.

• Chekhov’s Gun.
• Chekov’s Gun.

[Pewskeepski]

Why is the secpter of fire in this campaign? what makes it essential to have a story about the end of the world suddenly become about an artifact?

It's not about the artifact. Evad uses it to corrupt everybody as mentioned in the original plot. Consider the Scepter of Fire a Chekhov's gun.

Why is the character's rivalry with Rovistar absolutely necessary? What purpose does it serve in the story?

Evad takes the scepter from him. It could be avoided but then there would be an empty spot in the story. (between the raising of the two suns) This could also be shortened if Evad was to steal it from Alitar, but then the player might get the idea that Alitar isn't so great after all. Besides, it could provide some interesting battles. Remember, I'm not writing a book or directing a movie, (even though I wish I was ) I'm making a peace of a video game. You read books, you watch movies, and you play video games. Granted, story is important. Very important. But so is game play. And I don't want to see reviews like this:

How interesting did you find the story?
10!
How fun do you think the campaign is?
2

Maybe we could find a compromise between 'unnecessary story parts' and 'game play needs'

Why delay the event of the fall to so far into the narrative? This is a campaign about the fall so why delay it?

It will seemed rushed and too quick. People will be like "Is that it? It's over already?" I want to go deep into what Wesnoth was like when there were two suns in the sky. And really get to show what went on. In UtBS, the merfolk say a lot of time passes between the two sun raisings and that mages were really populated when the second sun was raised. But afterwards, the number of mages decreased because of laziness.

How will you show the fall? Remember this is a world ending even it has to be impressive beyond all conception. Why can you not leave it to the player's imagination which is always more powerful than what can be shown?

Because of the kind of strategy game this is, the player will always be able to use their imagination. Most of it will be a 'talk-only'/cutscene scenario but the rock hitting Wesnoth won't be in game play because it's just not possible in a game like this. Unless an artist were to draw some story art for it, it will just be described.

Here's an idea: Who says this campaign has to be called "The Fall of Wesnoth"? It could be named something else. Any thoughts about this?

[Bennoman]

It's not about the artifact. Evad uses it to corrupt everybody as mentioned in the original plot. Consider the Scepter of Fire a Chekhov's gun.

Right well here we are going back to the very first point that I made. This story line may work well within it'self but placing it into the background of the fall diminishes what the fall is about. In it's immediate aftermath the world goes to hell, and we can reasonably assume that allot of very unpleasant characters will take advantage of the situation. Like bandits becoming warlord raiders, or ancient liches hiding out in deep caves sense that the way of things have changed come to the surface to build empires. Why all of this story telling acrobatics? You could do the same thing with simply something like this in the story segments...

"Then out of the blasted wastes came "insert name", he was unlike any of the other evils that faced the ragged survivors of that world. His dominion over undeath was unmatched this was true. Yet it was the power he wielded over flesh and the minds of all living, thinking things that gave him true power..."

Why is the character's rivalry with Rovistar absolutely necessary? What purpose does it serve in the story?
Evad takes the scepter from him. It could be avoided but then there would be an empty spot in the story. (between the raising of the two suns) This could also be shortened if Evad was to steal it from Alitar, but then the player might get the idea that Alitar isn't so great after all.

Why do we need to think that the main character is great? If he is already great, and unmatched then where is his character arc? How will he change, become a better person and gain insights into himself?

Besides, it could provide some interesting battles. Remember, I'm not writing a book or directing a movie, (even though I wish I was ) I'm making a peace of a video game. You read books, you watch movies, and you play video games. Granted, story is important. Very important. But so is game play. And I don't want to see reviews like this:

How interesting did you find the story?
10!
How fun do you think the campaign is?
2

Maybe we could find a compromise between 'unnecessary story parts' and 'game play needs'

Right well its this sort of thinking that leads awful games and in addition good story telling can make a bad game bearable. Do you think angry birds would of been as popular if it had not defined the story or characters as well? Green pigs stealing eggs from birds that get so angry they hurl themselves at the pigs buildings? That is demented genius.

Even Halo with all of it's cliche ridden plot is brilliantly paced, the characters may be hollow archetypes but again they are well defined. Gears of war, again a big dumb game with far too much homo eroticism right ? Brilliant plot, it has taken the outline of a combat mission mythology and built on it perfectly. Good games are great games with well told plots, and it is your job as a campaign designer to craft both a good gaming experience but also a good narrative. But if it does not fit the narrative, or the narrative does not fit the game play mechanics then don't do it.

It will seemed rushed and too quick. People will be like "Is that it? It's over already?" I want to go deep into what Wesnoth was like when there were two suns in the sky. And really get to show what went on. In UtBS, the merfolk say a lot of time passes between the two sun raisings and that mages were really populated when the second sun was raised. But afterwards, the number of mages decreased because of laziness.

So two points here, when they say there was a long time between the suns being raised I would consider that to be generations..... A long enough time for the empire to entropy and fall into decadence. Think the time between Rome in all its Republic glory and its final days before it split with Constantinople.

More importantly it wont seem rushed and quite because the fall is the main plot device for any story around this period. You will have a wealth of situations in which to craft all kinds of challenges and scenarios because of this event. It is the out of wack event which throws the protagonist into chaos. Out of Wack events are brilliant plot devices because they give instant conflict to the character and instant plot.

Because of the kind of strategy game this is, the player will always be able to use their imagination. Most of it will be a 'talk-only'/cutscene scenario but the rock hitting Wesnoth won't be in game play because it's just not possible in a game like this. Unless an artist were to draw some story art for it, it will just be described.

Here's an idea: Who says this campaign has to be called "The Fall of Wesnoth"? It could be named something else. Any thoughts about this?

You don't have to show it, you don't even have to draw it. You can just say it, words are powerful. But you come across the problem here is that if you have a plot that goes from one end of the fall to the other you will have your work cut out for you trying to show it adequately. And since it is such a massive event it needs to be shown adequately.

At the end of the day it's your campaign so the plot and name is yours. The point that I am making is that due the fact this is happening at such a huge event if you create a plot line that is about something utterly removed from it then what is the point of having it at this period of history?

A story about a powerful evil doer, portals to hell and the scepter of fire can be placed at most periods of Wesnorth's history. So why does it have to happen at this point when there is something infinitely more epic and more interesting happening?

[Pewskeepski]

Right well here we are going back to the very first point that I made. This story line may work well within it'self but placing it into the background of the fall diminishes what the fall is about. In it's immediate aftermath the world goes to hell, and we can reasonably assume that allot of very unpleasant characters will take advantage of the situation. Like bandits becoming warlord raiders, or ancient liches hiding out in deep caves sense that the way of things have changed come to the surface to build empires. Why all of this story telling acrobatics? You could do the same thing with simply something like this in the story segments...

"Then out of the blasted wastes came "insert name", he was unlike any of the other evils that faced the ragged survivors of that world. His dominion over undeath was unmatched this was true. Yet it was the power he wielded over flesh and the minds of all living, thinking things that gave him true power..."

OK, Here's an example: There could be a movie (there's not any that I'm aware of) about 9,11. It would literally be about 9,11. Nothing else. But there could also be a movie about a person who was greatly effected by 9,11 but had nothing to do with it.

Why am I saying this? Because you told me to write the story about someone who wasn't in the heat of the fall kicking ass. And yet, you think the story should be about the fall and nothing else. If this is the case, the story has to be not about a specific character, but an event. (The Fall of Wesnoth)

The way the story is, it's about a person (Alitar) who was effected by The Fall of Wesnoth but not about anybody who had anything to do with it. Now that I realize this, I totally agree that the story should be about the event, not the person.

So, the answer is obvious, make a campaign that follows the events that went on with the king because he was responsible for the fall. Make a story about the fall. But this means I probably couldn't show the player what really went on with the civilians of Wesnoth and what they thought about the second sun. Because if I did, it'd be unnecessary. Also, all the people who were present at the raising of sun number 3 were killed when it fell. So there would be no part 2 following the survival of the survivors? That would seem like a drawn out story.

Here's what I propose: The story become a Zipper-plot once again. But let's not make the story about two people. Instead, the story is about the events that took place in the capital which led to the fall. But it's also about a man named Alitar who is affected by the governments decisions. In part 2, Alitar would take over the story with his struggle to survive.

The story is not about two people, it's about a person (named Alitar) and an event. (called The Fall of Wesnoth)

Everything I didn't quote, I agree with

[Bennoman]

OK, Here's an example: There could be a movie (there's not any that I'm aware of) about 9,11. It would literally be about 9,11. Nothing else. But there could also be a movie about a person who was greatly effected by 9,11 but had nothing to do with it.

Why am I saying this? Because you told me to write the story about someone who wasn't in the heat of the fall kicking ass. And yet, you think the story should be about the fall and nothing else. If this is the case, the story has to be not about a specific character, but an event. (The Fall of Wesnoth)

Yes sorry if I have caused a bit of confusion there. When I say do a campaign about the event, but not about the details of the event yes I can see that being contradictory but essentially i believe it should be this way because.

1.) If you have any campaign about the fall it should be the main plot device, otherwise it's no longer about that subject.
2.) By avoiding the nitty gritty details of how it happened it still maintains a great mystery, I think that is important because it allows the player's imagination to fill in the gaps and it avoids horrible amounts of exposition.

Which is why I think you should consider the campaign through the filter of how the consequences of the fall effect people. It allows you to discuss the event indirectly through character conversation (giving the story the human element), and secondly it maintains the mystery of the event since the characters only know so much.

The way the story is, it's about a person (Alitar) who was effected by The Fall of Wesnoth but not about anybody who had anything to do with it. Now that I realize this, I totally agree that the story should be about the event, not the person.

So, the answer is obvious, make a campaign that follows the events that went on with the king because he was responsible for the fall. Make a story about the fall. But this means I probably couldn't show the player what really went on with the civilians of Wesnoth and what they thought about the second sun. Because if I did, it'd be unnecessary. Also, all the people who were present at the raising of sun number 3 were killed when it fell. So there would be no part 2 following the survival of the survivors? That would seem like a drawn out story.

Here's what I propose: The story become a Zipper-plot once again. But let's not make the story about two people. Instead, the story is about the events that took place in the capital which led to the fall. But it's also about a man named Alitar who is affected by the governments decisions. In part 2, Alitar would take over the story with his struggle to survive.

The story is not about two people, it's about a person (named Alitar) and an event. (called The Fall of Wesnoth)

Everything I didn't quote, I agree with

you know what I believe the answer is simply to have it as two different campaigns if you want to describe life before and after the fall. The reason I say this is that each campaign should have a distinct tone and theme. However I feel that any campaign in the final moments before the fall just won't be that exciting because there's no real source of conflict.

[Pewskeepski]

Yes sorry if I have caused a bit of confusion there. When I say do a campaign about the event, but not about the details of the event yes I can see that being contradictory but essentially i believe it should be this way because.

1.) If you have any campaign about the fall it should be the main plot device, otherwise it's no longer about that subject.
2.) By avoiding the nitty gritty details of how it happened it still maintains a great mystery, I think that is important because it allows the player's imagination to fill in the gaps and it avoids horrible amounts of exposition.

Which is why I think you should consider the campaign through the filter of how the consequences of the fall effect people. It allows you to discuss the event indirectly through character conversation (giving the story the human element), and secondly it maintains the mystery of the event since the characters only know so much.

Thanks. I'll keep those pointers in mind

you know what I believe the answer is simply to have it as two different campaigns if you want to describe life before and after the fall. The reason I say this is that each campaign should have a distinct tone and theme. However I feel that any campaign in the final moments before the fall just won't be that exciting because there's no real source of conflict.

I've decided that part 2 is no longer "Part 2." It's a sequel, yes. But it's not necessary for the player to play it unless he wants to know what happened to Alitar. So it's going to be called something different.

Stay tuned; storyboard coming soon!

[Pewskeepski]

Here's a list of Scenarios...

Scenario 0 is Prologue. The "T" means it's Talk-Only.

Spoiler:

Scenario 0: T
The king decides to raise another sun into the sky so future kings will not have to suffer any uprising evil. To complete this task, they will have to gather the most powerful mages.

Scenario 1:
Meanwhile, Alitar is bustin' outta the prison which is located on The Three Sisters. He catches a ride on a ship which is heading back to Elensefar.

Scenario 2:
One of the more powerful wizards is attacked by a small tribe of orcs. After he repels them, he travels toward Weldyn at the king's wish.

Scenario 3:
Alitar arrives at Elensefar, gathers some outlaws, and sneaks away.

Scenario 4:
Alitar is confronted by some other bandits on the road. He defeats them.

Scenario 5: T
The most powerful of mages are brought before the king in council. Some disagree, but it is decided that a second sun will be raised.

Scenario 6: T
Alitar (who is living in Dan Tonk) hears about the raising of another sun. He makes plans to steal the Scepter of Fire.

Scenario 7:
The ceremony starts. Alitar sneaks through the crowd towards the king's castle. He knocks out a guard and takes his armor.

Scenario 8:
Alitar finds the Scepter of Fire. He meets the princess on the way out but convinces her that he's taking the Scepter to the king.

Scenario 9: T
The mages successfully lift a second sun into the sky.

Scenario 10: T
Alitar arrives at his house with the scepter and starts planning out his next move.

Scenario 11: T
A celebration is held in Weldyn but the king finds out the Scepter of Fire has been stolen. The princess thinks she knows who took it.

Scenario 12:
Alitar finds the Scepter of Fire missing, and finds a note signed by Rovistar, his old enemy.

Scenario 13:
The soldiers plan a trap to catch Alitar instead of giving him ransom money.

Scenario 14:
Alitar fights against Rovistar and kills him. But the Scepter of Fire is nowhere to be found.

Scenario 15: T
The soldiers tell the king that they've found Alitar and are pursuing him.

Scenario 16:
Alitar escapes capture. And lives in the Dulatus Hills.

(Time passes)

Scenario 17: T
The new king of Wesnoth is told that his family has been killed by a necromancer. Outraged, the king wishes to raise another sun into the sky.

Scenario 18:
Once again, the mages gather and attempt to do what they did once before. A portal opens and demons come out and kill everybody.

If we all agree this is good. I can start making it into a campaign (Assuming it follows IftU)

[Bennoman]

right so some comments.

scenario 1:
no need to have this as a talky scenario, you can put that just in the story section. You don't even need to go into detail.
However I belive that the sun should of been raised generations before rather at the beginning of the story.
Why?
Because it shows the difference in the capability of Wesnorth then and Wesnorth now. The king was to assert himself as great as his predecessors, thus he is undertaking the creation of the third sun as purely a vanity project. To prove he has dominion over the world. The campaign should begin with the declaration that they are raising the third sun.

scenario 2:
fine, so I take it this will be a mainly rpg based story?

scenario 3:
Why does he do this? what is his motivation? if hes a man on the run why gather followers? Why not get as far away as possible?

scenario 4:
Seems rather unnecessary and tacked on.

scenario 5:
Same as scenario 1, though again I would say that the second sun should already exist at this time and has done for generations.

scenario 6:
Two talking sections in a row, don't think that would go down well. In addition why does the main character want to steal the scepter of fire? he's just broken out of prison why does he want to risk getting stuck in a new one?

scenario 7and8:
Seem to be one and the same. you should combine these if you wish to do so.

scenario 9-10-11:
3 talkies in a row? bad form that would just frustrate any player. In addition as i said the 2nd sun should already exist as it is s symbol of power which the modern day people wish the emulate.

scenario 12:
Your committing a major story telling sin here. Massively important plot point being performed off stage! In addition up until this point there has been no mentioning of Rovistar so seems a bit of a jolt to have him come out of the woodwork. Plus if you want him to take the scepter of fire have him do it in person.

scenario 13:
sounds alright.

scenario 14-15-16:
Seems as soon as Rovistar is introduce you kill him off, seems very abartiary.... seems even more random that the scepter will be gone too. the last two seem also quite random. Nice ending, though. Though he could of saved all that trouble by going there to live in peace in the first place.

scenario 17-18:
Firstly my thoughts were what? and secondly no.

Why on earth do daemons suddenly appear?! We have had no hints or warnings as to why this would be.

my conclusion:
The protagonist seems to lack a genuine motivation for doing what he is doing. Why does he want to attempt to steal the most important artifact in the empire? It better be a matter of life or death.
The second issue is when this is set. If you wish to do this at the time of the rasing of the second sun then thats great, but if you wish the characters from this campaign to exist in one set after the fall I don't think it would work. As I believe the second sun should be rasied at Wesnoth's height of ability. The third sun is raised during Wesnorth's decline. Therefore there should be a large time gap between the two events, 100 years at least to give it a sense of epicness.
Lastly the way you describe this would work best as an RPG style campaign, with recruiting at a minimum. Worth meditating upon.

[Pewskeepski]

I thought 2 talk only scenarios in a row was a bad idea, I just didn't say anything. And I also already considered that fact that Rovistar is a complete strange and yet, your suppose to kill him. Overall, I didn't like it that much myself. I thought there were too many talk only scenarios, and too many random occurrences.

I like the idea of having it take place after the second sun is raised. It was just too peaceful when the first sun was raised.

But what would be the source of conflict? How about Wesnoth has been split in two - there's the people who honor the throne and the people who don't. However, the rebels are scarce, and aren't much of a threat. Kinda like a civil war but not really one because of the fact that the king is not making an attempt to destroy them.

Or maybe there's Slavery in Wesnoth now? There could conflict in that. Sorta like Northern Rebirth. Or maybe there's a conflict about what is really 'good' and what's really 'evil'? Or maybe even political conflicts of some sort?

Any ideas?

[Bennoman]

Oh i think we might have our wires crossed here.

I by second sun being raised I mean the first of the 2 new suns.

If you want to do a story detailing life during the golden age so to speak and want to include the raising of a sun as a background event. Here is what i suggest.

-The main character is a thief as you have designed him as such. This provides instant conflict in a period of history that won't have much.

-This would have to be an RPG heavy campaign. Due to the nature of the time they are living with there really cannot be much justification for large scale battles. However to have a more party based campaign could work. Alternatively maybe it would be worth considering that if your main character is a thief and a lone wolf but you want to have traditional battles with lots of recruiting you will have to work out your justification for doing so. An idea off the top of my head is that he could be a mechanical wizz and can create clockwork minions... something like that.

-Slavery could work as a conflict source, maybe political. However I would say that any political conflict would be of the skulduggery and intrigue kind. Where rival groups hire assisains or spys to out maneuver the other. The idea of a civil war or anything similar during this time would not suit the setting.

-If you wish to do a story with the sun's being raised here is how i envision it. The first one is raised for what ever reason, it is successful and brings in a golden age for Wesnorth that last generations. However in time this fades, the empire becomes decadent and lazy (not necessarily corrupt), and the rulers yearn to recapture the brilliance of the previous ages. So in a grand gesture they raise the new sun, I see this failing almost instantly... parties being held across the land millions in the capital, and it crashes back down on them. Makes for epic stuff.

-Anything set in between the period of the 2 suns being raised is during the "golden age". Golden ages are prosperous and free of troubles. So that means we cannot really justify a campaign based on war, or vast undead uprisings etc. But small scale things (doesn't mean they wont have large scale impacts).

-As for Rovistar, here is a suggestion. Have a number of scenarios taking place in the prison the protagonist is held in, they could be forced to fight each other, or he could even be a vicious warden. Even better why not make it set on a penal colony? The only hell in an otherwise brilliant world? This would also serve as a good story telling point that even in the most virtuous of empires there is a rotten underbelly.

[Pewskeepski]

-If you wish to do a story with the sun's being raised here is how i envision it. The first one is raised for what ever reason, it is successful and brings in a golden age for Wesnorth that last generations. However in time this fades, the empire becomes decadent and lazy (not necessarily corrupt), and the rulers yearn to recapture the brilliance of the previous ages. So in a grand gesture they raise the new sun, I see this failing almost instantly... parties being held across the land millions in the capital, and it crashes back down on them. Makes for epic stuff.

In UtBS, it says a great evil befell them while the raised the third sun. So not only was Wesnoth unprepared to raise another sun, but they also were under attack.

-As for Rovistar, here is a suggestion. Have a number of scenarios taking place in the prison the protagonist is held in, they could be forced to fight each other, or he could even be a vicious warden. Even better why not make it set on a penal colony? The only hell in an otherwise brilliant world? This would also serve as a good story telling point that even in the most virtuous of empires there is a rotten underbelly.

I love the idea of a penal colony. In the story below, I've taken the idea of a penal colony and added a little bit of fantasy. The prisoners have to survive on a tropical island filled with undead.

Alitar is a prisoner in a penal colony on the Three Sisters, Rovistar is their warden, and the prisoners are forced to survive the hordes of undead that lurk in the jungle. But now, Rovistar and his men have left Alitar behind because the undead are getting to numerous. It's to dangerous for the soldiers to be there, and Rovistar is a very mean guy.

Alitar takes command of the prisoners and leads them in survival. Somehow (not sure yet) they get off the island and arrive in Wesnoth. Alitar's first objective is to find and kill Rovistar. After he has revenge, the king decrees that he will raise another sun into the sky. This is something Alitar won't want to miss so he goes to the capital to watch it all happen. (scratching the demons) Undead surround Weldyn and start ripping through the civilians and the soldiers. The undead kill most of the mages so the sun falls.

Now, the player may be asking "What does Alitar have to do with the fall?" and the answer is: A lot--You see, Wesnoth has pretty much dispelled evil, so where would a logical place for a necromancer to hide be? The Three Sisters because it's always been "Cursed" with evil. Rovistar found an evil alter inside a temple on the island. When he touch it, his soul got connected to it so if he dies, an evil mastermind (Evad) will come to life rise again. That's the real reason why Rovistar left the island.

When Alitar killed Rovistar, he summoned the death of Wesnoth

Obviously this is not complete. I'm not sure how Alitar is going to get off the island and I'm thinking about having a few scenarios showing the king's decision about raising another sun-- They'd be in between Alitar's scenarios. Oh, and I've decided to can the sequel. I'm just going to put it all in one campaign. After all, the fall is not just about the sun destroying everything, it's also about how warlords tore the nations apart afterwards

[Bennoman]

right I think your really on the right path with the penal colony story.... It has tremendous room for all kinds of storylines etc. Plus it adds motive to the protagonist to act against the main source of authority in the age... which is the empire.

However lets consider a few points.

The rivalry between the main character and rovistar is a great dynamics that could be built upon, espically if he is a corrupt warden. So why have Evad at all? If you want someone to become a powerful big bad why add that convolution to the story. Rovistar being the warden of the island gives him both isolation from the powers that be, and absolute power within his realm. In other words he can do what he wants and gets away with it, including becoming a powerful necromancer... Adding an extra evil and dynamic to this story just seems unnecessary, when you have so much room to craft a narrative which tells the story of the characters hate for each other.

I still think if you want to do a campaign that tells the story after the fall it should be a separate campaign. Otherwise it will feel disjointed in tone. if you do it as a squeal this gives you opptunity to allow for character growth and change between the campaigns and the distance of time between the two stories will allow for you create all kinds of story telling devices.

However the story of the fall as you pointed out is not so much about the falling of the sun but about the warlords and monsters, and necromancers and rampaging orcs that ruin it afterwards. It's these things that stop the empire recovering and thus leading to the post apocalyptic world in under the burning suns.

post 2
arrrgh! double posted!

post 3
even worse I triple posted!