Outlaws - Finished!

[LordBob]

I'm not bothered by the relaxed pose : since it's meant for dialog, threat isn't compulsory. Plus, the facial features carry a sort of stubborn wickedness that I really like. Altogether, "relaxed" is a welcome change compared to many Wesnoth portraits including my own.

As to the knife, I don't mind the choice of a cutlery-like weapon. Single- or double-edged it might be, but simple is a great feature that works well with the whole idea of backstabbing - it's really the expertise of the wielder that makes it deadly!

Anatomy-wise, I know you can do better. His left shoulder bothers me, I think this has to do with the upper curve of the shoulder. His right hand seems short of a few inches, eventhough the size and position of the fingers is right. Also, I can't define exactly how to improve it, but in the end I understand that the hand is resting on his hip only because my brain tells it has to. My eyes don't get that feeling.

[Neoskel]

@Turuk: About the knife the rogue(?) is holding, it's my understanding that he's gesturing with one of his throwing knives as opposed to his stabbing one which is visible on his hip.

He looks great kitty, but i thought you said he was gonna be sly and foxy.
If i was right about the knife he's holding being a throwing knife, you might want to change it into a stabbing knife if you still want to use it as both a thief and a rogue portrait. If you are going to make a separate portrait for the male thief, it'll be more than a little wierd to not have one for the female rogue as well.

I also have a suggestion for a possible pose for the male thief/rogue (either for this one as a shared portrait or for a separate lvl 1 portrait). You could have him cleaning dirt out from under his fingernails with his dagger, possibly with a disinterested expression. Would fit a younger thief more than a more grizzled rogue as you have presented. A little cliche i guess, but it fits well enough to me.

Hope some of this is helpful in some way.

[Turuk]

@Turuk: About the knife the rogue(?) is holding, it's my understanding that he's gesturing with one of his throwing knives as opposed to his stabbing one which is visible on his hip.

I did think of this, but it is then not consistent with the aspects of a knife that you would throw, either in the normal style or like a dart. It was just a suggestion to make the portrait more realistic.

[Iris]

I'd like to have her as l1 and 2. perhaps i'll do seperate l2 portraits at a later point but for now the units are similar enough.

Good.

Done, but not for 1.6 RC1. It'll have to wait for 1.6 RC2 (1.5.13).

[turin]

Very nice, but I have a slight problem with the "flavor" his appearance gives, and I think I know why... it's his hair. The white curly hair makes him look like he's wearing a wig, almost; he reminds me of the announcer in the movie Gladiator (though I saw that last night, maybe that's why). So, really prissy and higher-class, not like a thief at all. I get the feeling straight hair would work a lot better, for some reason...

[Skizzaltix]

I agree with Turin--Hair that's greasy won't really puff out like that, and I wouldn't think thieves would be too big on the shampoo
Anyway, great work!

[Sgt. Groovy]

The male thief:

I have no problem with the skinny build and slouching posture (and no, this is not in contradiction to my earlier suggestion for more pride and spunk for the female thief, women in male dominated communities such as criminal gangs need twice the attitude as the men to survive), and the general expression is good as well. I'll reserve judgement about the hair until it's shaded, flat coloured it's bound to look disconnected and wig-like next to a shaded face.

The main problem I see is that it's too much alike with the female version. Even though they are the same unit, the similarity in apparel makes it look like they are wearing uniforms. In the criminal underworld, one would expect the general anarchy to be expressed in more individual clothing preferences. The outlaws should be more like a mismatched riff-raff, not a regulated military force like the loyalists. At least the double-row perforated belt needs to change, and his leather wrist braces could well be replaced with fingerless gloves (to keep hands warm while leaving fingers free for lock-picking and pickpocketing).

Also, as mentioned above, it's easy to overuse the facial scars to imply bad-assness and moral corruption. There are plenty of other ways, such as pock-marks, broken noses, droopy eyelids, reddish, watery eyes and swollen, red features (as a sign of drinking habits).

There are also two individual details that bother me. One is the smallish (compared to the other) hand resting on the hip, that also look a bit child-like. I believe that if the hand was more bony and long-fingered, it would be easier to imagine it being constantly up to no good.

The other thing is the unseathed dagger hanging loose from his belt. These guys are keeping their daggers razor sharp and you don't want something like that pounding against your thigh. Also, quick-drawing the dagger is difficult when it's swinging like a pendulum, the blade may get damaged when being kept exposed, and free hanging anything isn't good for stalking and climbing walls and fences. All in all, a Bad Idea. A forearm-attached dagger (with a seath) might be a good and "cool looking" alternative.

[JW]

The main problem I see is that it's too much alike with the female version. Even though they are the same unit, the similarity in apparel makes it look like they are wearing uniforms.

1) vest
2) shawl
3) pants

In the criminal underworld...
Also, quick-drawing the dagger is difficult when it's swinging like a pendulum, the blade may get damaged when being kept exposed, and free hanging anything isn't good for stalking and climbing walls and fences. All in all, a Bad Idea.

-maybe he's not the mastermind.

[Sgt. Groovy]

1) vest

Same colour and tight fitting form. Same colour scheme (dark top, lighter sleeves and bottom).

2) shawl

That's something extra, not different.

3) pants

Never seen uniforms that come with pant and skirt versions?

-maybe he's not the mastermind.

Still a professional with the knives. Even if he's not a mental genius, at least the scars in his face should have thought him something about respecting sharp blades.

[doofus-01]

Interesting as always.
His right forearm seems a bit short though, I think his wrist would be below his shoulder if he folded his arm. Or maybe it's the small hand already mentioned.

[JW]

Groovy: I'm not gonna debate whether it's different enough or not with you (if it even has to be), but I think you're just nitpicking. I can clearly see differences, but what really matters is what kitty thinks.

[Orcish Shyde]

Still a professional with the knives. Even if he's not a mental genius, at least the scars in his face should have thought him something about respecting sharp blades.

Looking again I have to agree with you about the unsheathed dagger, but while a sheath for it wouldn't dampen the coolness factor very much, this isn't a realism contest.

Even though they are the same unit, the similarity in apparel makes it look like they are wearing uniforms. In the criminal underworld, one would expect the general anarchy to be expressed in more individual clothing preferences. The outlaws should be more like a mismatched riff-raff, not a regulated military force like the loyalists.

Because they are the same unit, that doesn't bother me so much; they look different enough to imply a lack of standard uniform. Compare the male and female Dark Adepts - a coven of black magicians has even more reason in-universe to be disorganised and mismatched than a crime ring, and their shabby black clothes have even more in common than the male & female thieves/rogues. Plus, this is the line that turns into the human Assassin, the one outlaw unit I can think of that has a good reason to look fairly regimented (if the sprite's anything to go by).

Also, as mentioned above, it's easy to overuse the facial scars to imply bad-assness and moral corruption. There are plenty of other ways, such as pock-marks, broken noses, droopy eyelids, reddish, watery eyes and swollen, red features (as a sign of drinking habits).

Agreed - it isn't that big an issue if only the thieves have scarring = unlawful background, but it's going to get boring if it goes on too long. On the other hand, reddish, watery eyes were already used on the Dark Adepts. In the end, it's Kitty's call.

[Sgt. Groovy]

Compare the male and female Dark Adepts - a coven of black magicians has even more reason in-universe to be disorganised and mismatched than a crime ring, and their shabby black clothes have even more in common than the male & female thieves/rogues.

I guess that's just a difference in perception, I've always seen the necromancer line as akin to a religious order or a cult, who might well issue a dress code to indicate their status.

[Neoskel]

Compare the male and female Dark Adepts - a coven of black magicians has even more reason in-universe to be disorganised and mismatched than a crime ring, and their shabby black clothes have even more in common than the male & female thieves/rogues.

I guess that's just a difference in perception, I've always seen the necromancer line as akin to a religious order or a cult, who might well issue a dress code to indicate their status.

Well the thieves are also part of an organisation, being part of 'rat-catching' guilds. They even dye their hair to proclaim their status as such.

[Turuk]

Why don't we halt all the speculation on what users perceive a thief should look like according to their mental image until Kitty offers some input of her own.