Loyalists

Mabuse · Post by **Mabuse** » January 8th, 2008, 10:39 pm

Jozrael wrote: They're excellent against melee only factions: what better unit to have on the frontlines vs Knalgans, for example?

a couple of spears

January 8th, 2008, 11:52 pm

Knalgans have the horseman's arch-enemy, the guardsman. Which means that one of the loyalist trumps cards are negated when playing knalgans. Of course, there are ways to get around that.

Sir_Furious · Post by **Sir_Furious** » January 9th, 2008, 2:16 am

Well i think in the attack mage vs. wose is good offense but unless it is shaman wose then you will escape with out damage and shaman wose is not a normal unit. however when attacked by a wose look out and fall back cause its cream of mage soup.

spearman i use mainly against horse units and HI and my main is bowman it has great range and it coast a low price, also the meelee can ward off an enamy most of the time.

Martinus · Post by **Martinus** » January 9th, 2008, 3:40 pm

Sir_Furious wrote: it coast a low price, also the meelee can ward off an enamy most of the time.

What???

Jozrael · Post by **Jozrael** » January 11th, 2008, 1:23 am

Wtf? How am I not capable of reading? :l. And personally, I'd rather have HI to deal with DFs, not spears. That's just my opinion, tho.

Weeksy · Post by **Weeksy** » January 11th, 2008, 8:14 pm

the one problem is that HI's greatest ability (resists) is nearly negated v. the hammers dwarves use.

Post by **F8 Binds...** » January 12th, 2008, 5:32 am

I wanted to state that the cavalryman exceeds the HI spearman, and other such units in defending against UD. Although UD's skeletons resist the unit, the only real threats are from skeleton archers- if your opponent targets these with his adepts, consider that he's not using them against HI or mages. Cavalrymen resist cold, resist skeleton's blade, are fast, so they can run to a village from poison, are good at taking out ghouls and adepts with mobility, and are all around a very good pick for the loyalist fight against UD. I've found that unless an opponent goes skeleton heavy, there is no particular need for HI. Some games I do not recruit them, they fall prey to the much more deadly dark adept and force your other units to take heavy damage if you want to cover them. I tend to go with a mix of mages, cavalrymen, a few spearmen, and the occaisonal fencer, horseman, and if need be, HI. Mermen are recruited as per the amount of water on a map... etc.

In other terms, the cavalryman is a very good choice against UD as compared to the standard HI + mage spam it seems people do nowadays... so don't let the usefulness of it slip out of mind.

January 13th, 2008, 12:50 am

In other terms, the cavalryman is a very good choice against UD as compared to the standard HI + mage spam it seems people do nowadays... so don't let the usefulness of it slip out of mind.

Cavalry, in my experience at least, specialize at abolutely nothing. They can do a reasonable job against most units, in contrast to something specialized like white magi, which does an excellent job against undead and nothing else. Their lvl 2 and 3 counterparts are no exception. The dragoon's crossbow isn't as powerful as that of a Dwarvish thunderer, although it can serve a somewhat similar purpose. And his sword isn't as powerful as that of a swordsman's, but still can serve a somewhat similar purpose. Same goes for the cavalier.

Post by **anakayub** » January 13th, 2008, 2:09 am

Federalist marshal wrote:
In other terms, the cavalryman is a very good choice against UD as compared to the standard HI + mage spam it seems people do nowadays... so don't let the usefulness of it slip out of mind.
Cavalry, in my experience at least, specialize at abolutely nothing. They can do a reasonable job against most units, in contrast to something specialized like white magi, which does an excellent job against undead and nothing else. Their lvl 2 and 3 counterparts are no exception. The dragoon's crossbow isn't as powerful as that of a Dwarvish thunderer, although it can serve a somewhat similar purpose. And his sword isn't as powerful as that of a swordsman's, but still can serve a somewhat similar purpose. Same goes for the cavalier.

Unless the enemy is pierce, let's see them fight cavalry on open plains. They're the open plains specialist. 40% def. Good resistances. Decent attack (good for its price).

Post by **F8 Binds...** » January 13th, 2008, 3:55 am

Federalist marshal wrote:
In other terms, the cavalryman is a very good choice against UD as compared to the standard HI + mage spam it seems people do nowadays... so don't let the usefulness of it slip out of mind.
Cavalry, in my experience at least, specialize at abolutely nothing. They can do a reasonable job against most units, in contrast to something specialized like white magi, which does an excellent job against undead and nothing else. Their lvl 2 and 3 counterparts are no exception. The dragoon's crossbow isn't as powerful as that of a Dwarvish thunderer, although it can serve a somewhat similar purpose. And his sword isn't as powerful as that of a swordsman's, but still can serve a somewhat similar purpose. Same goes for the cavalier.

Only skeletons can stand against your cavalrymen without need of assistance. And as said, the only effective counters are skeleton archers, adepts (reduced damage), and ghosts (not much damage, reduced damage). Your mages are the ones killing the opponent's skeletons and ghosts, your other units have no problems against dark adepts, ghouls, WC's... and the other essential units to the UD's structure against loyalists. The cavalryman excels in killing those units, especially due to it's resists, decent melee attack, and mobility. And on open ground, they get even better.

January 13th, 2008, 5:39 am

Well, one of the great things about loyalists is that they get a decent deal of relatively versatile units (spearman, bowman, cavalryman) as well as some specialized units (merman, HI, fencer), and then there's the awkward units that need a lot of handling to use right (mage, horseman). You get a bit of everything, really.

Mabuse · Post by **Mabuse** » January 13th, 2008, 8:46 am

F8 Binds... wrote:I've found that unless an opponent goes skeleton heavy, there is no particular need for HI.

agree.

Xandria · Post by **Xandria** » January 13th, 2008, 10:15 am

Actually, I find it a pity that you cannot recruit cavalrymen in HttT and TRoW. Likewise, what I miss in HttT is the humble spearman. Or any kind of spear-guy.

January 15th, 2008, 5:05 am

What I hated about HttT is that I had to kill loyalists with elves; I'm used to the other way around.

Post by **Jetrel** » January 15th, 2008, 3:06 pm

Cavalrymen rock against dwarven fighters; for only one gold more than a fighter, they've got better resistances than the fighter (30% blade, 40% impact vs. 20% blade, 20% impact), comparable damage (lawful 6-3 vs. neutral 7-3), and 10% higher defense on open ground (and they're twice as fast). The obvious downside is that if the dwarf gets into hill country, his defense skyrockets, and likewise, cavalry get pounded by guardsmen and thunderers (and poachers). Cavalrymen are also very useful against gryphons, and if you can catch one on open ground, are an easy way to neutralize a 'zerk. They're a very useful units to bring along when playing as loyalists.

Fencers are useful because their defense is so high on open ground, because dwarven fighters have to engage them in melee, and because they can dart through the lines to grab villages. They're quite useful for darting through the line and kamikazeing ulfzerkers - unless the ulf is on good terrain, it's actually a fairly even fight, and a good trade to neutralize the threat.

Xandria wrote:Cavalry actually hurt Woses quite bad - 40% impact resist, lawful, three strikes, blade, mobile. I can imagine worse units to fight Woses. While the mage may be the obvious counter, the cavalryman does a good job too.

Cavalry are notable for being the least likely wose counter to get killed on the next turn. Even heavy infantry don't have that kind of impact resistance. Mages are obviously excellent. Fencers can work well, but their (negative) resistance can make for a quick death if your luck sours - which is precisely where cavalrymen rock; they do better in the worst-case scenario.