Preliminary Dwarf Dragonguard Portrait

Post by **thespaceinvader** » December 12th, 2007, 8:39 pm

And some more. Forgot the eyes, too.

Post by **Boucman** » December 13th, 2007, 3:17 am

that's starting to look really good...

the desaturating did help a lot

Post by **Jetrel** » December 13th, 2007, 4:32 am

That arm is not possible. It's an attempt to stitch together two "key points" - a hand and wrist in one position, and a shoulder and upper+forearm in another position. With those two in the position they are in, there is no way to reconcile them - you will have to adjust the forearm, and the way the fingers grip the gun.

Post by **irrevenant** » December 13th, 2007, 6:54 am

I thought we were trying to remain deliberately ambiguous on whether "thundersticks" were or weren't firearms?

Having a clear trigger contradicts that. And even if they are firearms, I would imagine them to be of the more primitive "tubes with fuses" type anyway.

Post by **thespaceinvader** » December 13th, 2007, 7:07 am

Iunno. Like i said, not my sketch. But for my part, i think that the way they're held and fired implies at the very least a primitive triggering mechanism. There's no sign of lighting matches etc in any of the shooting animations. I'd personally have it that the trigger isn't mechanical at all, but works by runes. Somehow.

Jet: i'll see what i can do. I haven't a model to work from, but i'll knock something together. And also expand his body a little. Looking at it in the cold... well, dark of twilight, but light of day is what i'm going for... it does look a little skinny.

Post by **irrevenant** » December 13th, 2007, 7:26 am

thespaceinvader wrote:Iunno. Like i said, not my sketch. But for my part, i think that the way they're held and fired implies at the very least a primitive triggering mechanism. There's no sign of lighting matches etc in any of the shooting animations. I'd personally have it that the trigger isn't mechanical at all, but works by runes. Somehow.

The attack animations are pretty simple (at least in 1.3.9 which is what I have handy).

You're probably right about the lack of matches but basically all the animation shows is pointing a tube (with a stock) at the enemy.

Mostly the trigger grip seems far too modern to me. I'd rather see a more primitive matchlock mechanism eg.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1 ... quebus.htm
http://www.japanese-guns.com/JRM%20Pist ... CN0432.JPG

Post by **Sgt. Groovy** » December 13th, 2007, 8:05 am

Having a clear trigger contradicts that.

I'll reiterate what I said on the first page: That kind of pistol-grip and trigger with a trigger guard look terribly modern. We don't need to pick a design exactly like in real history, but it still has to give the impression of "primitive." Taking into account that that kind of features didn't start to appear until after several hundreds of years of firearm evolution, we shouldn't expect that the dwarves came up with them just like that.

I'd still go for the Japanese matchlock look, because:

It resembles the one in the sprite
It looks like a "gun," but not in the modern sense

And I agree with Jetryl about the arm, it looks like an elephant's trunk.

scienceguy8 · Post by **scienceguy8** » December 13th, 2007, 5:05 pm

Just wondering: what was the trigger design for a Middle Ages crossbow, and is this the same trigger design used in Wesnoth?

Nuts. Just did some research and it turns out the Middle Ages crossbow used a lever trigger. Too bad, because I really like that portrait. The complaint that it looks like his arm is way too flexible: remember that a dwarf is much shorter than a human, thus the forearm will be shorter. The arm will be more like chain links than levers, plus with the clothing he is wearing it causes his arm to lose definition, making it look more curvy and flexible than it actually is. I hope that made sense.

Weeksy · Post by **Weeksy** » December 13th, 2007, 6:42 pm

he might be a dwarf with a different-shaped arm from a human's, but he shouldn't have two wrists, like the bends in the picture would require.

Post by **thespaceinvader** » December 13th, 2007, 9:58 pm

Better? I had a quick look for some reference of a different style of trigger assembly type thing. There'll be a match or wheel lock thingy on the other side that we can't see.

Also changed the shape of the arm, fiddled with the line of the torso, and biggerised the beard, so that i can get a smaller one in one the lower levels.

scienceguy8 · Post by **scienceguy8** » December 14th, 2007, 1:31 am

I am gonna miss that pistol grip and trigger guard.

On an unrelated note, I do not think he would hold the weapon by the firing lever. We now take you to the three most important rules in modern day firearm safety.

1. Never point the weapon at anything you are unwilling to shoot.

2. Always treat the weapon as if it were loaded, even if you know for a fact that it is not.

And the biggie:
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot!

Post by **thespaceinvader** » December 14th, 2007, 6:02 am

Ditto. It was well drawn.

Bear in mind that a) that's not a modern weapon, and it's not being used in modern times and b) he's essentially got his finger behind the trigger, since it pulls away from the barrel, as you can see by the space for it to move into being up the barrel from it (i changed that specifically so i could put his hand there, actually...) and c) i'd kinda thought of that more as some form of priming or cocking lever anyway.

Post by **irrevenant** » December 14th, 2007, 8:04 am

thespaceinvader wrote:Better?

I, for one, am a lot happier with it. It doesn't look all "Weshammer 40k" now...

Weeksy · Post by **Weeksy** » December 14th, 2007, 9:15 am

it'll be worse until it's shaded like the first one, that one had quite a good job. These flats are more of a turn-off than if he had a deagle.

Saphy · Post by **Saphy** » December 14th, 2007, 12:00 pm

thespaceinvader wrote:Better? I had a quick look for some reference of a different style of trigger assembly type thing. There'll be a match or wheel lock thingy on the other side that we can't see.

Also changed the shape of the arm, fiddled with the line of the torso, and biggerised the beard, so that i can get a smaller one in one the lower levels.

I believe the most noticable issue is the perspective of the gun. According to its shape, the barrel should be closer to the screen, but it is behind the head so it can't be. The fingers also seem like claws from birds instead of fingers from human.