The Sojournings of Grog (3.6.1 is out)

[Elvish_Hunter]

Look at me, Mr Productive.

Sorry for not having the time to answer sooner. When yesterday I found some minutes, the forum was down for mainteniance.
First, the answers to your former message:

1) Did we confirm exactly what were doing about the 3 different routes in 'Homecoming'? I think it was along the lines of: More Dwarves on the bridge route, a gold chest in south route. I can't remember if I put in more dialogue to explain it all better. That will be done.

No: Dwarves and insects are enemies. If I put some Dwarves, the insects will attack them. I can put more spiders and ants. About the gold, I haven't added it yet because I was undecided on where to place it or if, instead, place a special loyal unit. The problem, with this solution, will be finding a good special Dwarvish unit for the Dwarvish option.

2) Did you add the water hex to prevent the naga spawning in void?

Yes.

3) The map in 'siege perilous' looks different, did you modify it to keep it consistent with 'homecoming'?

Not yet: again, I'm undecided on how to fix it.

4) Also, the inaccesible hex on the map?

Fixed with the map editor.

5) Ghosts get dialogue when they capture a unit - not sure if there is a work around for it.... Actually, you could have a random skeleton do the talking.

Ghosts actually CAN talk: see Abhai in Northern Rebirth, for example.

6) The recall list in 'first contact' does it change? I got different units on a second playthrough

No: the recall macro uses a filter by type. If more than one unith matches this filter (for example, you have more than one Boulderlobber), then the engine picks randomly one unit. It's OK.

7) Did you fix the runes for the bridge triggering twice?

Yes, with a variable. I fixed also a similar bug in Homecoming.

Also, the skeleton that captured my unit appearing outside with my units at end of scenario

The new code should have fixed this.

9) Siege perilous - Some of the bats (are there now more of them?) went north into the actual village. Doubt it matters though.

No, there aren't more. And no, it doesn't matter because at a certain point you will control all Trolls.

10) Out of interest, why does the turn change from 4 to 11 when the skeleton delivers the line and Zurg talks to you?

I don't know. Eros and Mars originally coded it this way. Should I change it?

11) If Zurg and Grog enter tunnel, do you lose any unit that hadn't entered?

No.

12) 'Deep levels' Elyssa is surprised at the Trolls magic they use to collaps the tunnel, but she has been with them for years. Why would she not know of it? Wasn't she studying it?

Probably just because the Trolls never had the chance to collapse a wall with her present. A comment from Deep Levels:

Code: Select all

#Elyssa is jealous
#could we have a rivalry between them? (Eros)

14) Elyssa tells Grog not to recruit too many Trolls - Now, in reality, Grog isn't recruiting because where do the recruits come from? Recruiting is in effect, very unrealistic. Therefore, Elyssa mentioning recruiting is kind of breaking the 4th rule and ackowledging the unrealistic aspect. It's only one line though, I just like making a fuss over small things.

"Recruiting" is a gameplay term. If you have a better solution, I'll gladly add it.

15) There is 100% chance to hit the units on the lava. They need a defense value.

I'll fix it.

16) Grog says "fire worries us" after all the units are killed at the lava - but their Troll shamans use fire and so does Elyssa.

Ok. Will be better "lava worries us"?

17) Why are the miners still dressed as soilders. Need a different sprite.

Not really, first because I'm not an artist, second because this will complicate the code, third because we have a Red Mage that does the Engineer in Evacuation scenario (Eastern Invasion).

18) Careoddrent's name is annoying

Only because you never had an assassin named Clean, a wose called Bombadabom, an orcish archer named Paolo and a drake named Mark. There is a thread about funny unit names in off-topic. And the name is randomly generated.

21) This campaign, and especially this scenario feature a lot of races. Maybe too many? It just seems that they get added in because they can be.

At least this isn't the usual Elves vs. Orcs battle. There are around campaigns with even more races (IftU comes to my mind, just as example...)
Now, to Eros:

OK, but 1.9 will be very similar to 1.10 so will ease transition a lot. When 1.9 comes out 1.8 will remain very similar so there will be little need to maintain that release. As I said before the popularity (in number of downloads) is very closely related to how near to the top it is.

Maybe I'll upload it later in the 1.9 development cycle. To complete my point of view, you should know that, when a new stable is released, its development add-ons server is closed and the stable server restarted. So, 1.1, 1.3 and 1.7 servers don't longer exist, and only the 1.5 server is survived via the web interface for some reason that I don't know. Due to this, it isn't really important to qualify in pole on the 1.9 server.

NB: Someone could suggest to the developers making the list rank in order of popularity by default. (Or a "user rating" system)

This was already proposed - and refused - before, so this will not happen.
And now, your latest message:

1) Who is riding the Gryphons? Unless I'm much mistaken, they were riderless in 'Every Troll to do his duty'

Yes, they're riderless in A6. To solve the problem of Dwarvish Gryphon Riders in next scenarios, I'm trying to do a Troll Gryphon Rider by doing a frankensteining. When I have done something, I'll post.

2) The Lich was immune to damage in 'First Contact' but now he is not? What changed? One thing you could do is this: - You could create 3 more of the tunnels guarded by 1 unit with the gold and 3 prisoners in and put a power crystal in them. You then have to find and destory all 3 to destory the spell that gives him invulnerability. You could move the white mage into the first prison cell and he can tell you about the crystals.3) I felt there were a lot of units to kill in the beggining, it made it more of a chore than a challenge. I tried recruiting level 1 + 2's so I could level them all up. In the end, I got 3's and a few 2's. The whole level is just a mash through lots of units. Especially if you aren't quick enough getting the first two leaders. It could do with there being less units to deal with from the first two leaders

I'll think about it. Also Mal-Ravanal in Easter Invasion first is invulnerable and in the final scenario(s) isn't.

4) The south end tunnel which is the one you flee down in 'First Contact' is very different from the version in 'First Contact'

"First Contact" different from "First Contact"'?

5) The gold chest in the north doesn't disapear after you take it.

Ok, I'll check. Usually chests are replaced with an open chest.

6) The first prisoner I released is 'Krunk' even though he is now Zurg and I already have Zurg (of course). I can attach a replay if you like?

I just recycled this good old name. I liked it.

7) What happens if there are no prisoners from 'First Contact' - are those tunnels empty?

Yes.

In the cage where I got Frokk - there isn't an image of him in prison, but a balck shape with a '?'

Exactly, what unit type is Frokk?
I also have a question for you: in SVN/trunk/attic, I found this image of the Sceptre of Fire, from the SoF campaign before that it was mainlined. Do you think that it will be useful as final story screen?

sceptre_of_fire.png (47 KiB) Viewed 3716 times

Edit: Annnd attach the file

Thanks for your work. A ton of work is waiting for me, I guess...

[Daravel]

Spoiler:

I apologise for all the questions and occasionaly repeating the same ones. I go through each scenario and anything that looks out of place or doesn't work (no matter how small) gets added to a list. I then bring it up here and don't remove it from the list until it's confirmed to be sorted. Which is why I keep banging on about Homecoming .

I'm trying to get all elements of the campaign to fit together and for there to be no inconsistencies, which is why I bring up tiny small things that maybe no one else will ever notice.

No: Dwarves and insects are enemies. If I put some Dwarves, the insects will attack them. I can put more spiders and ants. About the gold, I haven't added it yet because I was undecided on where to place it or if, instead, place a special loyal unit. The problem, with this solution, will be finding a good special Dwarvish unit for the Dwarvish option.

The problem with more spiders and ants are that any player that takes the bottom tunnel also have to fight them in order to access Grog's village. There is quite a bit of space between the bridge and the monsters, so you could place some stationary Dwarves and they probably won't fight. The middle tunnel won't take much to make harder, one or 2 guardsman on the rune hexs will hold a player up and create a bigger threat from the Dwarves coming out of the top and bottom tunnels.

As for placing gold (if you go for that), there are a couple of dead end tunnels down there that could be protected by a guardsmen. Do you mean that if you place a special loyal Troll down there to free, then you would also need one for the Dwarves? How about a runemaster?

Ghosts actually CAN talk: see Abhai in Northern Rebirth, for example.

Strange, but ok I suppose it's a 'magical voice' as opposed to an actual voice.

I don't know. Eros and Mars originally coded it this way. Should I change it?

The turn number change doesn't really matter. It's just inconsistent. I always assumed it was part of the code due to Zurgs team joining the players

Probably just because the Trolls never had the chance to collapse a wall with her present. A comment from Deep Levels:#Elyssa is jealous
#could we have a rivalry between them? (Eros)

Fair enough. I'm going to add in more rivalry between them when I do the second load of edits after playing everything. Elyssa will think she is better than the Trolls (in terms of combat and especially magic) but her subtle comments go unnoticed by the less intelligent Trolls; except Zurg.

"Recruiting" is a gameplay term. If you have a better solution, I'll gladly add it.

It just doesn't make 'real world' sense for a character to recruit, because in reality Grog isn't recruiting (where are the units coming from?) 20 something units went through that tunnel and if we were being 100% realisitic, 20 something Trolls would be in the next level (Of course, I'm not saying that should happen). It's just that Elyssa directly references 'recruiting' which in the characters world doesn't exist (at least not in terms of recruiting at a random keep in a long forgotten tunnel). I can just rephrase the line, no sure why I posted that point on here to be honest.

Ok. Will be better "lava worries us"?

I'm not sure. Might be better to just remove it. I see no reason for Trolls to be worried of either.

Not really, first because I'm not an artist, second because this will complicate the code, third because we have a Red Mage that does the Engineer in Evacuation scenario (Eastern Invasion).

Are there no unarmed peasant sprites? Or, just cut the club/pitchfork/bow off a peasant or footpad. You could even recolour their shirts to black and white for traditional prisoner clothes. Not sure how much work that'd be.

Does it complicate the code? The Humans in that scenario only stand still and talk a bit. You can recall a seperate list of units at the start of 'Every Troll to do his duty'

I'll think about it. Also Mal-Ravanal in Easter Invasion first is invulnerable and in the final scenario(s) isn't

True, but that doesn't make it make sense. The power crystal idea would actually add very little time in the scenario. I completed it with plenty of time to spare and explored all the important areas. Adding more of those tunnels on the paths the player will already go to (The tunnel to the poisioning potion, the tunnel with the magic resist amulet and wherever else) won't be hard to send one unit down, kill the unit, kill the crystal and done.

"First Contact" different from "First Contact"'?

I keep calling 'First contact' 'Deep levels'. Not sure why. I did it throughout my post and had to go and change them back. I must have changed 'nemesis' to 'First contact too

It's meant to say that, the tunnel that you flee down in 'First Contact' is very different from the tip of it you can see on the south edge of the map in 'Nemesis' - essentially, same thing as in Homecoming -> Siege Perilous.

Exactly, what unit type is Frokk?

A Troll Warrior? A level 3 Troll.

What do you want the Sceptre of Fire image for? I didn't read all the dialogue at the end of part 1 as it was very late and I was just flicking through. Someone has just begun redrawing it.

Attached is my replay of Nemesis. You can see the black image with '?' in the bottom left prison cell. I would consider this to be the hardesr scenario so far (What difficulty setting would yo say the whole campaign is on at the moment?) This was my third attempt at it, and you can see how I used mostly level 3 Trolls to rapidly push towards one leader while my level 2's are used to hold the other off. This can get very hard, very quickly if you don't move fast.

Do my replays help you? Would you like Deep levels and Every Troll to do his duty (which was far easier)

[Elvish_Hunter]

I'm trying to get all elements of the campaign to fit together and for there to be no inconsistencies, which is why I bring up tiny small things that maybe no one else will ever notice.

Also, you bring up things that even I didn't noticed. I thank you for this, really. The downside is that this makes my to-do list very long.

Do you mean that if you place a special loyal Troll down there to free, then you would also need one for the Dwarves? How about a runemaster?

Yes. What I do for Trolls should be doable also for Dwarves, otherwise this will unbalace the campaign when I'll add the Dwarvish option. Runemaster could be fine, but I should check in some other Era if there is a good unit for this purpose.

The turn number change doesn't really matter. It's just inconsistent. I always assumed it was part of the code due to Zurgs team joining the players

I'll see how to remove this turn modification without altering gameplay.

Fair enough. I'm going to add in more rivalry between them when I do the second load of edits after playing everything. Elyssa will think she is better than the Trolls (in terms of combat and especially magic) but her subtle comments go unnoticed by the less intelligent Trolls; except Zurg.

Yes, but please avoid making Zurg and Elyssa enemies! They're supposed to be allied until the end of the campaign.

Are there no unarmed peasant sprites? Or, just cut the club/pitchfork/bow off a peasant or footpad. You could even recolour their shirts to black and white for traditional prisoner clothes. Not sure how much work that'd be.

The recolouring could be quite a work, cutting away the weapons is much more simpler.

Does it complicate the code? The Humans in that scenario only stand still and talk a bit.

Or make them taking their weapons and then run a TRANSFORM_UNIT macro.

True, but that doesn't make it make sense. The power crystal idea would actually add very little time in the scenario. I completed it with plenty of time to spare and explored all the important areas. Adding more of those tunnels on the paths the player will already go to (The tunnel to the poisioning potion, the tunnel with the magic resist amulet and wherever else) won't be hard to send one unit down, kill the unit, kill the crystal and done.

OK. Just bear in mind that adding new features and testing can be a long work.

It's meant to say that, the tunnel that you flee down in 'First Contact' is very different from the tip of it you can see on the south edge of the map in 'Nemesis' - essentially, same thing as in Homecoming -> Siege Perilous.

Now that I think about it, First Contact and Nemesis happen in two different places. We can define First Contacs as a secondary den and Nemesis as the main den of the Lich.

This was my third attempt at it, and you can see how I used mostly level 3 Trolls to rapidly push towards one leader while my level 2's are used to hold the other off. This can get very hard, very quickly if you don't move fast.

It's the final scenario of the first arc, it's meant to be hard.

What do you want the Sceptre of Fire image for? I didn't read all the dialogue at the end of part 1 as it was very late and I was just flicking through. Someone has just begun redrawing it.

Spoiler:

At the end of the campaign, Elyssa finds the Sceptre of Fire in the Dragon's cave. I know that this is a contrast with IftU, and I was thinking about a way to fix it. For example, I was thinking to replace the Sceptre of Fire with the Sceptre of Life, from the campaign with the same name, that unfortunately is abandoned. This way, I'll be able also to recycle that old and unused graphic, while the Sceptre of Fire will use the new graphics in mainline.

Do my replays help you? Would you like Deep levels and Every Troll to do his duty (which was far easier)

Yes, they helped me, but I don't need Deep Levels and Every Troll to do his Duty. I also had problems of Out of sync. I'm on Wesnoth 1.8.3, what's your version?
Three more notes:
1) You wrote, referring to Nagas: Grog hate horrible fish.
Nagas are snake-like creatures, so I wrote: Ahh... Them Nagas. Grog hates horrible snakes.
2) You wrote, about the spider event:

Code: Select all

Elyssa:

	Original: How many times do I have to tell people this. Spiders are NOT insects...

	Revised: Remove

A thing that you should know, is that dialogue from UtBS, A Subterranean Struggle:

Code: Select all

[message]
            speaker=Nym
            message= _ "You know, if all we discover down here are insects, I'll be very disappointed. "
        [/message]

        [if]
            [have_unit]
                id=Elyssa
            [/have_unit]

            [then]
                [message]
                    speaker=Elyssa
                    message= _ "Spiders aren't insects."
                [/message]

                [message]
                    speaker=Nym
                    message= _ "Thanks for the clarification."
                [/message]
            [/then]
        [/if]

This message was added by Eros and Mars to make pair with this one from UtBS. Feel free to post a corrected one.
3) Replaying UtBS, I noticed this message in Across the Harsh Sands:

Code: Select all

[message]
                                speaker=Elyssa
                                message= _ "I accidentally managed to anger a powerful necromancer a while ago...it's a long story. But who are you? You almost look like elves."
                            [/message]

Maybe that necromancer was Apophis, that now is Mal-Apophis? This could give an interesting twist to the plot. This may lead also, if a campaign developer is interested, to make a campaign about Elyssa, how she became a mage, how she met Apophis and how she destroyed him (apparently).

[Daravel]

Spoiler:

Yes, but please avoid making Zurg and Elyssa enemies! They're supposed to be allied until the end of the campaign.

No fear! I'll try to make it fairly subtle and more along the lines of 'a professional disagreement on how to run things' as opposed to an outright confrontational relationship.

Now that I think about it, First Contact and Nemesis happen in two different places. We can define First Contacs as a secondary den and Nemesis as the main den of the Lich.

It makes sense having both scenario's occur in the same place. The campaign already says that they are at the north end of the Lich's fortress and they fled south before. In 'First Contact' they are brought before the Lich, and I see no reason why the Lich wasn't in his main castle at that point, also, the position of the units is exactly the same. Unless you have a major reason for wanting them to be seperate places, I suggest just changing the small bit of south tunnel to be the same as the bit in 'First Contact' - it will also make players go "Oh yeah, that's where we were before"

It's the final scenario of the first arc, it's meant to be hard.

It isn't just that it's hard, it's a chore to get through. Mainly the first turns, but I'd say that the first 15 turns of a scenario have never taken me longer. You make so little practice and just kill unit after unit. It'd be nicer if you faced the same number of enemies, but spread out more. It's like a survival game, but without the overpowered damage and extra moves after killing a unit.

Spoiler:

At the end of the campaign, Elyssa finds the Sceptre of Fire in the Dragon's cave. I know that this is a contrast with IftU, and I was thinking about a way to fix it. For example, I was thinking to replace the Sceptre of Fire with the Sceptre of Life, from the campaign with the same name, that unfortunately is abandoned. This way, I'll be able also to recycle that old and unused graphic, while the Sceptre of Fire will use the new graphics in mainline.

Seems ok to me. I'll have more to say once I've finished the campaign though, I'm sure.

1) You wrote, referring to Nagas: Grog hate horrible fish.
Nagas are snake-like creatures, so I wrote: Ahh... Them Nagas. Grog hates horrible snakes.

2 points:
- Would Grog know the difference? To him, wouldn't anything from the water be a fish? He can call it a "Hissing fish" to make it more snakelike
- Are nagas 'Water borne snakes' or 'snake like fish;?

2) You wrote, about the spider event:

Code: Select all

Elyssa:
	Original: How many times do I have to tell people this. Spiders are NOT insects...
	Revised: Remove

This message was added by Eros and Mars to make pair with this one from UtBS. Feel free to post a corrected one.

The link back to UtBS is very obscure and I doubt anyone would get it. I'm not sure why I labelled the line as removed, I thought I had just changed it... I don't have time to check, but make sure it doesn't get removed and remind me to change it if I forget

Maybe that necromancer was Apophis, that now is Mal-Apophis? This could give an interesting twist to the plot. This may lead also, if a campaign developer is interested, to make a campaign about Elyssa, how she became a mage, how she met Apophis and how she destroyed him (apparently).

I'm happy to make that Lich Apophis and create some backstory for them - so that they can interact with each other. I'll add that in the second go around.

Replays: I used the debug on 'Nemesis' to remove shroud at the end to make sure I'd been everywhere. If that might be the cause then I can go back and finish it without debugging?

[Elvish_Hunter]

Some quick answers:

It isn't just that it's hard, it's a chore to get through. Mainly the first turns, but I'd say that the first 15 turns of a scenario have never taken me longer. You make so little practice and just kill unit after unit. It'd be nicer if you faced the same number of enemies, but spread out more. It's like a survival game, but without the overpowered damage and extra moves after killing a unit.

I watched your replay of A7, and I noticed your lack of Level 3 units. For example, you didn't recalled any Boulderlobber, and recalled only one Fire Shaman/Warbanner. Did you tried to save leveled units for later scenarios, or simply you didn't had them? To win this scenario without problems, it is almost required to have three or four Warriors and three or four Boulderlobbers. Maybe I should increase the gold amount, and place the chest near the player's keep, otherwise when the player founds it he/she is already in deep negative and that gold won't be useful.

- Would Grog know the difference? To him, wouldn't anything from the water be a fish? He can call it a "Hissing fish" to make it more snakelike- Are nagas 'Water borne snakes' or 'snake like fish;?

Grog already met Nagas in the second-last UtBS scenario, as enemies. The Elves, in that scenario, also had Mermen, so Grog at least knows that Mermen and Nagas aren't the same thing. And, about what Nagas are, I'm copying the description of mainline Naga Fighter line, to make things clear:

Code: Select all

Naga Fighter:
"The serpentine naga are one of the few races capable of any meaningful mobility in water, giving them mastery of a whole world effectively forbidden to land dwellers. Still, they are not true creatures of the sea, and their inability to breathe water leaves them in trepidation of the abyss. They are small, and somewhat frail in form, but often much more nimble than their opponents."
Naga Warrior:
"The young warriors of the naga aspire to the day when they merit their second blade. Their martial practice of using twin blades is wholly unlike that of the Orcs and other races, for they have begun to learn the art of using their serpentine form to best effect, twisting and turning to dodge from blows. This makes them potent on land, but the friction of water greatly impedes the technique."
Naga Myrmidon:
"The most practiced of the naga blademasters are initiated into the caste of the Myrmidon, masters of their twin-bladed art. They strike as fast as the snakes which they resemble, and dance away from attacks with grace. Not only are they potent enemies on any open terrain, but their ability to swim allows them deadly mobility in water."

Replays: I used the debug on 'Nemesis' to remove shroud at the end to make sure I'd been everywhere. If that might be the cause then I can go back and finish it without debugging?

No, :debug will cause out-of-sync if you create units from nowhere. Yesterday I replayed the first two scenarios of Fate of a Princess, for example, and I noticed that, in the first scenario, the replay is corrupted (I save-loaded and there is a transformation of Ishlars the Mage from one unit type to another), but the second isn't (I didn't save-loaded and there wasn't any unit transformation). Either way, WML and save-load should't cause corrupted replays. I should check with SkyOne and mich (author and co-author), and see if it's an engine bug or not.
About bugs, I noticed that recalling a unit during a victory event crashes Wesnoth, or at least it did in 1.8.2. Anyone else noticed this?
About the unknown unit symbol: this was made to make code simpler. Maybe it's possible to use the unit's sprite, but this involve use of variables. Can you send me your start-of-scenario savegame, so I can test a solution?
And, about the Gryphon, I thinked to make them riderless for the whole campaign. But, to do this, I need a Level 1 Gryphon sprite. So, I recoloured a Gryphon (only the baseframe, for now) to make it white, like some birds that have white feathers when young, and this is the result:

A Young Gryphon recolour

gryphon.png (2.79 KiB) Viewed 3672 times

Do you think that this will work as a L1 Gryphon, still young enough to have white feathers, but strong enough to be used on the battlefield?

[Anonymissimus]

About bugs, I noticed that recalling a unit during a victory event crashes Wesnoth, or at least it did in 1.8.2. Anyone else noticed this?

While loosly following this thread as usual I recall that this bug appeared in The Founding of Borstep (IIRC) and has been reported by beetlenaut.

[Eros]

Maybe that necromancer was Apophis, that now is Mal-Apophis? This could give an interesting twist to the plot. This may lead also, if a campaign developer is interested, to make a campaign about Elyssa, how she became a mage, how she met Apophis and how she destroyed him (apparently).

That was meant to be the idea we just never implemented it.

[Daravel]

Posted below

[Daravel]

Spoiler:

I watched your replay of A7, and I noticed your lack of Level 3 units. For example, you didn't recalled any Boulderlobber, and recalled only one Fire Shaman/Warbanner. Did you tried to save leveled units for later scenarios, or simply you didn't had them? To win this scenario without problems, it is almost required to have three or four Warriors and three or four Boulderlobbers. Maybe I should increase the gold amount, and place the chest near the player's keep, otherwise when the player founds it he/she is already in deep negative and that gold won't be useful.

I only have 2 warbanners - the third I recieved from the first prison cell - not that I recall losing a fire wizard in 'First Contact', I was only expecting to find the Troll Warrior. Am I supposed to have more? I recruited 4-5 Troll warriors and then level 2 units so I could level them up. I initially used level 2 and 1's - which many people will do. I neglect Rock/boulderlobbers I always prefer to get big Trolls that hit things. The gold was fine - of course, we're not playing with a proper carryover gold system. I could recruit whatever I wanted. I'm not sure the problem would disapear if I had more level 3's - I'd certainly level up less units.

Naga stuff

Fair enough, I'll change it back

And, about the Gryphon, I thinked to make them riderless for the whole campaign. But, to do this, I need a Level 1 Gryphon sprite. So, I recoloured a Gryphon (only the baseframe, for now) to make it white, like some birds that have white feathers when young, and this is the result:

The attachment gryphon.png is no longer available

Do you think that this will work as a L1 Gryphon, still young enough to have white feathers, but strong enough to be used on the battlefield?

I think they'd be good riderless, in the preceding scenario they are wild Gryphons and untamed. To then have them being tamed and ridden is very odd.

and the gz file of nemesis...

edit: I've finished part 1!!! Everyone applaud! No?.....ok.

38 seperate storyboards at the end... Whoever wrote all that, I'll kick their ass But it's all done and attached. I've made some changes to events, but some of it is not clear.

- Elyssa says about going to get more people to help fight, I assume she is coming back.
- Gocyn says about staying with Grog, and Ormron agrees, then says about going back to the village - what do the three main humans do?
- Gryphon speech, I'm using k's, eee's and ooooh's "Kan weee kayyy ith ooooh?" - kind of thing.
- The backstory of the humans involves Dwarves. I've made it so that the Dwarves abandon them when the dragon comes because of their arrogance - when they were wealthy. But, the humans than abandon whatever wealth they have left to the Dwarves - to repent their sins. Then, when the city is about to fall, the Dwarves save them. You can use this link when you write the Dwarf version - maybe.

Now, I'm just hoping part 2 is 1 scenario long, and it's called "Grog is silent for 10 minutes then goes to bed".

[Elvish_Hunter]

About the Shamans: I checked and effectively there are only 2 (one is Zurg) until A7. I just got confused, sorry.
About the Boulderlobbers: they have a decent melee attack, and thanks to their ranged attack they can throw boulders without retaliation. Having some of them will make the scenario easier as well. Recalling also your five Warriors will have made the scenario easier
And finally the Gryphons: I finished the recolour (three days of work! ) of the L2 Gryphon to have a L1 Young Gryphon. Here there is the GIF:

Young Gryphon

Young Gryphon.gif (11.14 KiB) Viewed 3628 times

Any opinion about this? Any UMC developers, as always, is free to use it.

- Elyssa says about going to get more people to help fight, I assume she is coming back.

Yes.

- Gocyn says about staying with Grog, and Ormron agrees, then says about going back to the village - what do the three main humans do?

They stay with Grog, and later all of them go to the human village. From here, they'll eventually attack the Dragon - but this isn't yet finished because I'm making a C2 scenario.

edit: I've finished part 1!!! Everyone applaud! No?.....ok.

*Elvish_Hunter applauds*

[Daravel]

Spoiler:

Attached is all changes from S1 -> S3. Almost finished the campaign!

The Gryphon looks great! Much better than I could do at any rate

Now, the part you love the most

1) When the runemaster says the line "Time to use the heavies" or something, and starts recruiting Berserkers, all of the blue and green sides units disapear, except the leader; they then start recruiting on the next turn. Was a nast surprise, as I had a unit get attacked twice, then those units dispear, then that unit got berserked twice .

However, It did give me an idea. With the changes, I made the runemaster get more and more annoyed as the scenario goes. Perhpas he can relieve blue and green - maybe even go crazy and have them killed? Or just have the units fall back.

2) "North Gate" - the map is different again

3) Gurk's (first leader you come to) his portrait doesn't display properly when he talks when he dies

4) The signpost you need to get Grog and Elyssa to isn't shown when the objective change - I had to search the whole map for it.

5) I was in heavy negative gold, and when Zurg came, I couldn't use the recalls - even if I needed to. Is that intended?

6) Gocyn levels to a Royal guard, but his town is not a kingdom. So therefore not royal.

7) The Dwarf keep that gets set up when they arrive looks odd and random.. Why not have them use the existing keep?

To finish the scencario I put Elyssa on the signpost, took her off, then put Grog on it. Grog's line of "come on" sounds as though it is meant for when he is first on and waiting for Elyssa. Even so, it's counter-intuitive (to a degree) to take one off and put other one on. Perhaps better to make them dispear when they stand on it? Or if they still need to speak, have an aread they need to be stood in (like the start of a path)

9) The Dwarfs turn up relative to how long you held off in the previous scenario. But, the only thing preventing the Dwarves coming north was Zurg, so, as soon as Zurg left they would come north. So, in terms of realism, the Dwarves would be right behind Zurg. There should be a reason why they took so long to follow. Perhaps the trolls are building a wall all the time they defend and that accounts for the time?

10) If in "south gate" you kill the runemaster, then in North gate you kill all the Orcs - Which doesn't seem too hard. Who exactly are the Trolls now running from? Why don't they just stay?

11) Now for a heavy criticsm of "North gate". I found it a very tedious and difficult scenario. In the end I won by not moving anywhere and fighting on the banks of the first river and recalling all level 3 trolls with some level 2's - I didnt use the humans. The wolves would swarm in and attack in 3's and could kill a unit in one turn with bad luck - which you can't afford due to heavy negative gold. I had to go back to start of turns so much to prevent me losing a unit every couple of turns (normally I wouldn't, but I couldn't afford losses if I was to maintain the front line). The scenario requires no intuition; I tried using some level 1's but they died. I tried pushing out and killing the leaders but I got mobbed by Wolves and the above point I made happens. In the end, I didn't have enough high hp Trolls to hold the front line - I'd killed one leader.

Perhaps I'm not the best player, but I fail to see how you could kill all the leaders. I resorted to using almost pure level 3's and hiding in the corner. But, I might as well have been given 10 level 3 Trolls instead of my recall list. I don't know, I just feel something needs to change in the scenario. What are your thoughts, then I can come up with a more thought out plan to change it. It just frustrated me so much that I actually just quit the game and walked away.

- More terrain - Use Elves?
- More terrain to use defensively - you're stuck in the smallest of corners
- Less unit spam - maybe have the ai attack in waves?
- More varied enemies?
- More gold - or opportunity to make a grab for villages and hold them - risk vs reward
- If you're going for leaders, a better option than to move in a glob and get mobbed.

12) "Rearguard" - The Orcs got there before me? But, I killed all of them. Yes. All of them (minus 1 or 2).

12) There was a river road the Orcs used to get there before me? And Elyssa knew about it? We walked over rugged mountains, when there was a river road that Elyssa knew about? Permission to have Elyssa smashed to death by Grog? I removed the reference to the river road in Elyssa's dialogue anyway, as, no one is stupid enough to not tell us about the river road. But still, how did they get there first?

13) Rearguard - Plot the quickest route for Grog to get to the far side of the map, use the initial units to make sure his route isn't ZOC'd - Win in 8 turns or however many turns it takes for Grog to get there. Orcs and Saurains kill each other off mostly. There needs to be more to it. In the HttT scenario, you go between the armies.

14) "Waves and Waves" - This human army has been holding off hordes of Undead and Drakes for decades, and it consists of footpads? I was expecting lines of very cool units, who didn't run out of the keep and just die.

15) Again, for a very powerful town, a very small island.

16) You can recruit troops in this scenario, Zurg even says he will stay with them at the end. I just did the same as in "Rearguard". Sent Omron off on the quickest path and shielded him with the other units - Far too easy.

17) "Council of war" - Mayor, General, Priestess - Can we give them names? Also, they are governed by a council of elders, the leader shouldn't be a 'mayor'. Perhaps: Senior Elder, Grear Elder, Senior Councilman, Chief Elder.

18) Name for the town?

19) In Waves and Waves and this scenario Elyssa says she has heard of this town before. Except she never mentioned it; perhaps it's like this River road she negelcted to mention before? I removed the dialogue about her knowing the town before. But, does she? In which case she should mention it when they meet the Humans.

20) The council mention that "there used to be Dwarves in the montains to the north". Last we heard, they were alive and actually helped the humans when they were being overrun. How long has Ormron been away on the scouting mission, did they all die out in the last week?

21) The whole dialogue here seems confused. They first talk about the Dwarves and this red stone. Then instantly move to talking about when the Dragon came. We've already heard about this from Ormron, so I removed the historical dialgoue. That leaves us with 2 lines about the Dwarves and the red stone. The dialogue had them agree to deal with the Drakes in exchange for the mountains - but that was pretty much agreed with Ormron and he would have told them that when he met with them first. I was expecting something about the red stone (Sceptre of life?). What do you want them to discuss here? I've left this bit unfinished and will do it when you post.

Sorry if any of that comes across as garbled; it's late

I'm attaching my replay for North gate, Rearguard and Waves and Waves - so you can see what I'm talking about.

[Elvish_Hunter]

The Gryphon looks great! Much better than I could do at any rate

For a non-artist, this is one of the best compliments that I can receive I should really write a book: "The Powers of RecolouringTM and FrankensteiningTM"

1) When the runemaster says the line "Time to use the heavies" or something, and starts recruiting Berserkers, all of the blue and green sides units disapear, except the leader; they then start recruiting on the next turn. Was a nast surprise, as I had a unit get attacked twice, then those units dispear, then that unit got berserked twice .

If I remember correctly, the original authors coded it so these sides, that may slow down the more powerful ones, should disappear. As always, I'm open to suggestions.

2) "North Gate" - the map is different again

I suspected that you'll have noticed this I'll change it.

Gurk's (first leader you come to) his portrait doesn't display properly when he talks when he dies

Since the replay may be corrupt (I'm writing before downloading it, and this happened me in past for unknown reasons ), what's exactly the problem? The portrait is displayed on right side, or not at all? If not, in his other messages (I don't remeber if he says something else at the moment), all went right?

4) The signpost you need to get Grog and Elyssa to isn't shown when the objective change - I had to search the whole map for it.

To finish the scencario I put Elyssa on the signpost, took her off, then put Grog on it. Grog's line of "come on" sounds as though it is meant for when he is first on and waiting for Elyssa. Even so, it's counter-intuitive (to a degree) to take one off and put other one on. Perhaps better to make them dispear when they stand on it? Or if they still need to speak, have an aread they need to be stood in (like the start of a path)

One answer for two questions: I agree, this will be changed.

5) I was in heavy negative gold, and when Zurg came, I couldn't use the recalls - even if I needed to. Is that intended?

Are you proposing a solution like "Zurg carries a small bag with some gold, so I can recall something else"? It may have sense.

6) Gocyn levels to a Royal guard, but his town is not a kingdom. So therefore not royal.

In Wesnoth, every Spearman can level to Royal Guard. Do you think that I should create a new unit type, called Town Guard?

7) The Dwarf keep that gets set up when they arrive looks odd and random.. Why not have them use the existing keep?

Because if the player suspects something, he/she may try to occupy the keep with a unit, to avoid Dwarvish recruiting.

9) The Dwarfs turn up relative to how long you held off in the previous scenario. But, the only thing preventing the Dwarves coming north was Zurg, so, as soon as Zurg left they would come north. So, in terms of realism, the Dwarves would be right behind Zurg. There should be a reason why they took so long to follow. Perhaps the trolls are building a wall all the time they defend and that accounts for the time?10) If in "south gate" you kill the runemaster, then in North gate you kill all the Orcs - Which doesn't seem too hard. Who exactly are the Trolls now running from? Why don't they just stay?

Good points. The first can be fixed with just a sentence (maybe Grog reappears at the beginning of the first scenario saying something like "Trolls build a wall of rock. More time Zurg hold Dwarves, more solid wall be". As for the second point, the option to not have the Dwarves following was introduced after Eros' suggestion, if the player killed the Runemaster. Maybe reworking it so the Dwarves will show up very late (to still give a bonus to the player), the Runemaster becomes a Lich (that may be appled also for the Dwarvish option, since in UtBS, if you follw the Dwarves, the Trolls defen themselves also creating Undead Trolls) and recruits hordes of Skeletons and Undead Dwarves? Or they will be attacked by Elementals?

I don't know, I just feel something needs to change in the scenario. What are your thoughts, then I can come up with a more thought out plan to change it. It just frustrated me so much that I actually just quit the game and walked away.- More terrain - Use Elves?- More terrain to use defensively - you're stuck in the smallest of corners- Less unit spam - maybe have the ai attack in waves?- More varied enemies?- More gold - or opportunity to make a grab for villages and hold them - risk vs reward- If you're going for leaders, a better option than to move in a glob and get mobbed.

I already increased the gold once - maybe I can raise it again. The AI attacking in waves can be done by giving them some more gold every X turns. Villages aren't a good choice for Trolls, since they usually have only 40% defense here.

12) "Rearguard" - The Orcs got there before me? But, I killed all of them. Yes. All of them (minus 1 or 2). 12) There was a river road the Orcs used to get there before me? And Elyssa knew about it? We walked over rugged mountains, when there was a river road that Elyssa knew about? Permission to have Elyssa smashed to death by Grog? I removed the reference to the river road in Elyssa's dialogue anyway, as, no one is stupid enough to not tell us about the river road. But still, how did they get there first?13) Rearguard - Plot the quickest route for Grog to get to the far side of the map, use the initial units to make sure his route isn't ZOC'd - Win in 8 turns or however many turns it takes for Grog to get there. Orcs and Saurains kill each other off mostly. There needs to be more to it. In the HttT scenario, you go between the armies.

I see your point. Maybe replacing all the Orcs with Saurians (two Saurian tribes fighting each other, maybe) will work?

14) "Waves and Waves" - This human army has been holding off hordes of Undead and Drakes for decades, and it consists of footpads? I was expecting lines of very cool units, who didn't run out of the keep and just die.15) Again, for a very powerful town, a very small island.

Ok. The AI needs to be tweaked (it's one of my WML weaknesses), if you have a suggestion for replacing Bandits I'll be glad to consider it, and about the dimension, (I can't remember the exactl acronym) Hexes Can Possibly Be Miles Away.

17) "Council of war" - Mayor, General, Priestess - Can we give them names? Also, they are governed by a council of elders, the leader shouldn't be a 'mayor'. Perhaps: Senior Elder, Grear Elder, Senior Councilman, Chief Elder.18) Name for the town?

Give them the names that you like, otherwise I'll look in the Random Name Generator lists.

20) The council mention that "there used to be Dwarves in the montains to the north". Last we heard, they were alive and actually helped the humans when they were being overrun. How long has Ormron been away on the scouting mission, did they all die out in the last week?

The Dragon may be here from some months already.

21) The whole dialogue here seems confused. They first talk about the Dwarves and this red stone. Then instantly move to talking about when the Dragon came. We've already heard about this from Ormron, so I removed the historical dialgoue. That leaves us with 2 lines about the Dwarves and the red stone. The dialogue had them agree to deal with the Drakes in exchange for the mountains - but that was pretty much agreed with Ormron and he would have told them that when he met with them first. I was expecting something about the red stone (Sceptre of life?). What do you want them to discuss here? I've left this bit unfinished and will do it when you post.

Maybe talk about the strategy to follow to defeat the Dragon. Maybe about what they will find in the mountain (mines?), so they can trade with Humans. Maybe some backstory about the Sceptre of Life. Maybe having Elyssa unhappy at first, because she expected to find the Sceptre of Fire (that went destroyed, and now its Ruby of Fire is embedded on Elynia's staff in IftU/AtS). If you give me some time, I'll find the documentation on SoL - or you can download and play it. It's for 1.6, and doesn't work on releases next to 1.6.2, however (if my memory serves well).

I'm attaching my replay for North gate, Rearguard and Waves and Waves - so you can see what I'm talking about.

Thanks for your invaluable help.

[Daravel]

Spoiler:

If I remember correctly, the original authors coded it so these sides, that may slow down the more powerful ones, should disappear. As always, I'm open to suggestions.

That makes sense, but of course, looks very weird on the map and can lead to the player suffering casualties they wouldn't have done anyway. My solution:

When the Runemaster says his line, have the blue and green side withdraw it's troops to their respective keeps (maybe boost their movement to allow them to get out of the way quicker). Not entirely sure how to set that up, perhaps the ai special = guardian tag? Then, when the units are back at the keep, the Runemaster goes mental at them then either: a berserker kills them or he goes crazy and kills them. It'd be kinda fun to watch. In fact, I think that boosting their movement is needed because it might take too long for the event to occur and the player may retreat by then.

Since the replay may be corrupt (I'm writing before downloading it, and this happened me in past for unknown reasons ), what's exactly the problem? The portrait is displayed on right side, or not at all? If not, in his other messages (I don't remeber if he says something else at the moment), all went right?

He only speaks the once, when he dies. Normally the portrait is displayed in the left side of the dialogue box, but instead a small yellow icon of a man digging a whole (or something like that) is displayed. Reminds me of a "men at work" sign

Are you proposing a solution like "Zurg carries a small bag with some gold, so I can recall something else"? It may have sense.

It's not needed really, by the time Zurg comes and Elyssa with the extra troops, the scenario becomes easy - so you don't need more troops. I was just wondering if it was intended for player to recall.

In Wesnoth, every Spearman can level to Royal Guard. Do you think that I should create a new unit type, called Town Guard?

Sure, makes sense

Because if the player suspects something, he/she may try to occupy the keep with a unit, to avoid Dwarvish recruiting.

Good point. I also remembered that Elezear has done a lot of work on tile transistions, so it may not look so out of place in 1.9.

Good points. The first can be fixed with just a sentence (maybe Grog reappears at the beginning of the first scenario saying something like "Trolls build a wall of rock. More time Zurg hold Dwarves, more solid wall be". As for the second point, the option to not have the Dwarves following was introduced after Eros' suggestion, if the player killed the Runemaster. Maybe reworking it so the Dwarves will show up very late (to still give a bonus to the player), the Runemaster becomes a Lich (that may be appled also for the Dwarvish option, since in UtBS, if you follw the Dwarves, the Trolls defen themselves also creating Undead Trolls) and recruits hordes of Skeletons and Undead Dwarves? Or they will be attacked by Elementals?

First point: Perhaps have the player pick 3 Trolls to go off screen and build the wall - making it harder for the player - maybe compensate by reducing ai gold. Grog can't turn up, because don't North and South gate actually happen at the same time (if Zurg turns up in turn 16, then there is some overlap)

Second point: Theoretically: If the player kills the Runemaster then no Dwarves follow Zurg (why doesn't Zurg stay there then, if he won? Answer: To help Grog). Thus, North Gate is all versus the Orcs. If the player kills all the Orcs (either when it is a win condition, or after); then there are no more enemies left at all. So why do they then need to flee to Ormron's town? Answer: Because more Orcs are on the way. Add in an event that lots of Orcs turn up on the West side (above the cave where Deep levels took place) - do this a little time after the Dwarves turn up (if there aren't any Dwarves, then set a turn, like 25). This gives a reason for the Trolls to retreat, regardless of how well they performed. This carries on to the next scenario and I'll pick up the new events when I get to that point.

I already increased the gold once - maybe I can raise it again. The AI attacking in waves can be done by giving them some more gold every X turns. Villages aren't a good choice for Trolls, since they usually have only 40% defense here.

I finished in heavy negative gold, not sure how you win any other way. One way or another, the player needs more gold because if/when you implement acarry over system - they will be screwed. Attacks in waves gives more breathing space. Villages for gold, not defence. I'd like to see that small corner expanded just a bit, to give more room to play with and more villages. I'd also like to see an extra bit, where it is a gamble to occupy it, but you get more villages that way (but not so many villages that you can then recruit enough Trolls to defend it easily)

I see your point. Maybe replacing all the Orcs with Saurians (two Saurian tribes fighting each other, maybe) will work?

To carry on from before. Yes, change it to two Saurian factions. You stumble into a Saurian civil war or something - leave it deliberately vague. You have to thread your way between them, or whatever. You need to do something to make it more interesting though. Also, then the Orcs who appeared in the last scenario can chase you, and will appear after a time - In case you have been slow in getting across the battlefield.

Brainwave!: Perhaps you can talk to the leaders of the Saurians and in exchange for helping one of them, they will let you pass. Perhaps blow up a fortification, or kill a general or something. But, if you take too long, the Orcs come. Alternatively, you can just battle your way across.

These Orcs then appear in Waves and Waves - I added dialogue to make it a bit of a joke how Orcs always come back and how there is an endless supply of them.

Ok. The AI needs to be tweaked (it's one of my WML weaknesses), if you have a suggestion for replacing Bandits I'll be glad to consider it, and about the dimension, (I can't remember the exactl acronym) Hexes Can Possibly Be Miles Away.

More Royal (renamed to Town) guards, Longbowmen on the walls, a cavalry charge - Just use some cool, level 2 units to make them seem more developed. The recruits in "The Defence" are much more impressive. As for ai, can't you make them stay on the one hex and just defend?

The Dragon may be here from some months already.

The Dragon has been around for 60 years or so according to Ormron. The Dwarves explicitly helped fairly recently, Ormron says how the Dwarves abandoned them once the Dragon attacked, but then came to their aid when they were being overrun. I got the impression that they meant within the past 5 years or so. I thought the Dwarves were alive and kicking, barricaded in the mountain. No indication was given that they had all died out, until this dialogue. The Dragon can't have always been in the same place as the Dwarves - but, I fear, that in the "Dragonbane" scenario, the Dragon will be in the Dwarves old home?

Maybe talk about the strategy to follow to defeat the Dragon. Maybe about what they will find in the mountain (mines?), so they can trade with Humans. Maybe some backstory about the Sceptre of Life. Maybe having Elyssa unhappy at first, because she expected to find the Sceptre of Fire (that went destroyed, and now its Ruby of Fire is embedded on Elynia's staff in IftU/AtS). If you give me some time, I'll find the documentation on SoL - or you can download and play it. It's for 1.6, and doesn't work on releases next to 1.6.2, however (if my memory serves well).

I'll finish TSoG first before I deal with this bit of dialogue; then I'll know what does happen, so I can then construct what the plan will be (or was) . The information would be very helpful.

On another note. Do you want me to play with the maps a bit? I'm happy to sort out the maps that change between scenarios.

Also, do you have a major release planned in the near future? Or only bug fixes? I ask because, here is my plan:

- Finish TSoG and all the dialogue changes
- Play UtbS and make notes on the characters and races personalities and dialogue
- Create a plan for each character in TSoG and build relationships between characters that play out over the campaign, and decide how they will speak.
- Re-play TSoG and re-do lots of dialogue to make it all fit with this new plan. I also want to increase the Elves role, and I have lots of ideas to make the scenarios more interesting. Specifically the 2nd part (Too many Defence scenario's)

My question is: How up to doing lots of re-coding do you feel? I'm happy to help where I can. But, I feel this campaign could be improved vastly with changing a few things around (For example: In "The Defence", rather than a standard "defend this area" scenario, I'd like to see it be more dynamic. Firstly, you enter the scenario partway through the fight and must reorganise the defences (Drakes in the town already etc) and there should be missions (destroy the bridge to stop the Orcs getting across). As I say, it all comes down to how much work you want to put in; it's easy for me to sit here and give 1000 ideas.

Oh and who is always downloading the files I attach. They can't be very interesting for you Is it bots who just download everything they can?

[Elvish_Hunter]

When the Runemaster says his line, have the blue and green side withdraw it's troops to their respective keeps (maybe boost their movement to allow them to get out of the way quicker). Not entirely sure how to set that up, perhaps the ai special = guardian tag? Then, when the units are back at the keep, the Runemaster goes mental at them then either: a berserker kills them or he goes crazy and kills them. It'd be kinda fun to watch. In fact, I think that boosting their movement is needed because it might take too long for the event to occur and the player may retreat by then.

ai_special=guardian will make them cease to move, unless they can attack something in the next turn - in fact, a remedy worse than the damage. Killing them with several lightning bolts? Funny, it will fit also the Runemaster unit. It may be done with a store_unit, then a foreach, then placing the lighting item like it's done for Elyssa, then killing and animating these units. Not sure how much time will require me.

instead a small yellow icon of a man digging a whole

It happens when the engine cannot find an image (sometimes. Sometimes just it isn't displayed nothing.).

Perhaps have the player pick 3 Trolls to go off screen and build the wall

Better and simpler solution: three move_unit_fake to send three Trolls away to build the wall. Being fake units, no other change will be required.

Because more Orcs are on the way. Add in an event that lots of Orcs turn up on the West side (above the cave where Deep levels took place)

Ok. It needs adding another side without any leader, and give it a leader on that turn as well as changing the terrain.

I'd like to see that small corner expanded just a bit, to give more room to play with and more villages.

I'll answer to this point below, when talking about maps.

Yes, change it to two Saurian factions. You stumble into a Saurian civil war or something - leave it deliberately vague. You have to thread your way between them, or whatever. You need to do something to make it more interesting though.

Maybe two Saurian leadres are "sided" with the Dragon, other two are "sided" with an Orc leader (both the Orc and the Dragon won't appear - we may say that they are "followers"), they discuss about what is the most powerful leader, and, as it eventually happens, they start fighting.

The recruits in "The Defence" are much more impressive. As for ai, can't you make them stay on the one hex and just defend?

ai_special=guardian, and some other tweaks. For me, it will be a matter of trials and errors to see how the AI reacts at my changings.

but, I fear, that in the "Dragonbane" scenario, the Dragon will be in the Dwarves old home?

Yes, no more Dwarves around.

The information would be very helpful.

Here we go:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

In Sceptre of Life, there is a project folder that contains a genesis file. Its content:

setting: Eloh speaking to Aeryn

When Irdya was first created, before any creature of any race yet walked the land, there was created a group of beings known as the council of the ages.  They were powerful beings - what you would call gods, each having his/her own unique traits. I, being one of the council, was given the gift of overflowing life; my how I miss that day.

We were each of us given a single item bearing the power to create a race after our own image.  The first to speak was Thur (she laughed), as always.  He was given a great hammer befitting the great craftsman that he was, and he crafted unto himself the race of dwarves.

Not to be outdone by Thur, I stepped forward to recieve the Life Ruby.  With it I breathed life into the race of elves, and gave them the same boundless life that was bestowed upon me.  I remember the way that Thur looked at me that day, and the days soon thereafter.  He once told me that he had searched throughout the mountains of Irdya, both high and low, but he never found a jewel that captivated him so deeply as my ruby.  Sadly, that captivity didn't last; he never really pays attention to me anymore.

Anyway, I'm sorry - the third god to step forward was Yanqui, god and creator of the saurian.  With his eye of cunning, he brought forth their race, making them the wisest and cleverest of all creatures.  After him, god after god stepped forward, until finally, Yedeshua, creator of the council itself, stepped forward.

We all watched in awed silence as a rod formed within his grasp - the Rod of Justice, as it came to be called.  With it he created your race - the race of men, a lawful people who were designed to lead all the races in justice.  Sadly, the hearts of men were easily swayed, and they led the races into a spiral of ever-increasing injustice.

So came our world to its present state of lawlessness, deceit, warfare, and death - a world far removed from the one Yedeshua intended.  He has come to hate the world, almost as much as he once loved it.  In his heart he is conflicted; his hatred moves him to destroy the world, while his love for what it could be compels him to redeem it.

So he has a plan, Aeryn - a plan to redeem this world that now lives in rebellion against him.  And in this plan, you play a critical role.  Aeryn...I need you to do me a favor.

Code: Select all

In the same folder, conversation.txt

##|| Final Scenario ||##
    [message]
        speaker=narrator
        message= _ "Much has been recorded regarding the Sceptre of Fire, and the intricate way it is woven through our history - that of Wesnoth.  For as long as history can recall, men have fought over this means to power; many such men, having obtained it, were eventually corrupted by it."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Derril
        message= _ "Give me that Sceptre, Aeryn!  The king will not relinquish it at any cost, even if I must forfeit your life."
    [/message]
    [message]
        speaker=narrator
        message= _ "Yet little is said of the Sceptre of Life, an artifact which saved a fallen kingdom, and not a few fallen men.  Many historians of the Crown prefer not to mention it at all - perhaps for fear of embarrassing the Crown - nonetheless for history's sake, and for Aeryn's, I am compelled to recount its tale."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "Then it is forfeit, brother.  For this island needs the Sceptre; the fate of Irdya itself demands that the Sceptre remain here."
    [/message]
    [message]
        speaker=narrator
        message= _ "I realize that by publishing this work, my career, and quite probably my life is also forfeit."
    [/message]
    
    # Derril attacks Aeryn
    
    [message]
        speaker=narrator
        message= _ "Nevertheless, Aeryn's courageous stand against the will of his own brother, and the will of the king, has taught me a very valuable lesson.  I now know that there are things in this life which are worth the ultimate price; I maintain that presenting the truth is one of them."
    [/message]
    [message]
        speaker=narrator
        message= _ "To all who read this, I have endeavored to present an accurate account of the passing of the Sceptre of Fire.  I urge you to pass on this account, so that others may know the truth of our time, and reject the lies that have been circulating from the throne at Weldyn."
    [/message]
    [message]
        speaker=narrator
        message= _ "For a time is coming when the king of Weldyn shall be deposed, and Haldric's line shall rule once more in the land.  At that time, it will not matter whether slave or free, whether man or orc; the only thing that will matter is the side which you have chosen."
    [/message]



##|| Next Campaign ||##

    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "Aeryn, you have a question on your mind.  Why don't you ask her?"
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "You hear my thoughts now?  I suppose there is no limit to your abilities."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "(smiles): No, I have all of them."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Elrial
        message= _ "Well...what is the question?  Ask me!"
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "I would, dear Elrial.  But I fear that the request cannot...should not be granted."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "You still fear death, after all you have witnessed?"
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "You've broken the Sceptre, and hidden the Ruby; death still reigns over me.  I would not have Elrial suffer the sting of death once more!"
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "We only suffer for a time, dear Aeryn.  For a time is coming, when my Branch shall spring forth from Haldric's line - a Branch who will rule the whole of Irdya with justice, restoring peace, and Life, to the land."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "Then Life shall reign supreme, when the Ruby sits atop the right sceptre, and is wielded by the right king, sitting upon the right throne.  From that time forward, you two shall never be parted again."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Elrial
        message= _ "So that is what you fear, being parted from me?"
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "It is."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Elrial
        message= _ "Then ask your question, so we may never be parted again."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "(smiles subtly): Elrial, would you be my wife."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Elrial
        message= _ "(smiles broadly): I had hoped that was your question.  I will."
    [/message]
    
    ## Eloh begins to shine (halo effect)
    
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "What is this?"
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "It is a gift, and a...'"'thank you'"' for everything you two have done for me."
    [/message]
    
    ## Eloh stops shining
    ## Elrial begins to shine (halo effect)
    
    [message]
        description=Elrial
        message= _ "It's beautiful!  What is it?"
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "It is a shard of {SOL_RUBY_NAME}.  Years ago, when Thursagen first cut the Ruby of Fire, the various '"'scraps'"' of ruby were collected and saved.  Since then they've dispersed, but I saved this one shard for you."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Aeryn
        message= _ "Thank you, my lady.  We are honored...humbled, really, that you would think of us."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Eloh
        message= _ "Well, I know I'm not supposed to play favorites, but I really liked the two of you.  So, I figured I'd keep you around.  Aeryn, as long as you're with Elrial, and as long as she has this shard, you both shall never die."
    [/message]
    
    ## pan northward
    
    [message]
        description=Jessica
        message= _ "Finally, some serenity.  I haven't had a moment's peace for over a millenium."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description={SOL_YEDESHUA}
        message= _ "Peace?  You won't see peace until my Branch returns to the earth."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description=Haldric
        message= _ "But...the battle is won - the Green Isle is won."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description={SOL_YEDESHUA}
        message= _ "The battle for the Green Isle is over, it is true."
    [/message]
    [message]
        description={SOL_YEDESHUA}
        message= _ "The Battle for Wesnoth, however, is only just begun."
    [/message]
    
    ## play wesnoth theme; roll credits.
    

Also, do you have a major release planned in the near future? Or only bug fixes? I ask because, here is my plan:

After uploading a release with your updated dialogues, inconsistencies fixed, and maybe a C2 scenario that I'm making, I plan to declare the campaign complete. After that, if for some time no bug is spotted, I'll start adding the balancing and the Dwarvish option.

- Play UtbS and make notes on the characters and races personalities and dialogue- Create a plan for each character in TSoG and build relationships between characters that play out over the campaign, and decide how they will speak.- Re-play TSoG and re-do lots of dialogue to make it all fit with this new plan. I also want to increase the Elves role, and I have lots of ideas to make the scenarios more interesting. Specifically the 2nd part (Too many Defence scenario's)My question is: How up to doing lots of re-coding do you feel? I'm happy to help where I can. But, I feel this campaign could be improved vastly with changing a few things around (For example: In "The Defence", rather than a standard "defend this area" scenario, I'd like to see it be more dynamic. Firstly, you enter the scenario partway through the fight and must reorganise the defences (Drakes in the town already etc) and there should be missions (destroy the bridge to stop the Orcs getting across). As I say, it all comes down to how much work you want to put in; it's easy for me to sit here and give 1000 ideas.

I prefer playing than coding But if you suggest something that can improve the campaign, and I like it, I'll try to add it! And, if I won't add your proposed idea, it may be useful also for other UMC campaigns. About the maps, I solved the differences by copypasting some parts of the maps. After my next upload, you will be free to modify the maps as you like.

Oh and who is always downloading the files I attach.

Search engines.
Some things that you missed while rewriting dialogues:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Dialogue missing in A7 that happens if the player already lost all the human units:
[message]
			speaker=Elyssa
			message= _ "Welcome stranger."
		[/message]
		[message]
			speaker=Ormron
			message= _ "Indead. I was on a scouting party with a group of fellow humans when..."
		[/message]
		[message]
			speaker=Elyssa
			message= _ "We know. We found your friends working for some orcs. They followed us and died fighting in our cause."
		[/message]
	[message]
			speaker=Ormron
			message= _ "You did! I am mighty glad to hear that they died fighting as men rather than being cut down as they fled."
		[/message]
		[message]
			speaker=Ormron
			message= _ "If you don't mind I will follow you - for the time being anyway - and try to redeam the honour of our country"
		[/message]

Code: Select all

Example of how the MESSAGE_FIRST_UNIT and MESSAGE_SECOND_UNIT macro work:
Notes for some dialogues that uses different responses depending on the speaker:
# we use this unit function to alternate our response depending on the speaker
# we use the same messaqge for trollsa and ogres
# trolls and ogres have bad grammer but speak differently
# gryphons cant speak right
# the rest (elves and humans) are cultured
message for Ghoul event: (Troll, Ogre, Gryphon, Human/Elf)
{MESSAGE_SECOND_UNIT 
		( _ "What Ghoul do there?")
		( _ "Why that ghouly heree.")
		( _ "Wwyyy isss attt ooool eerre?")
		( _ "I wonder what a ghoul is doing down here?")}

Code: Select all

if the Ambassador is killed:If the Ambassador is killed:
{MESSAGE_SECOND_UNIT  
		( _ "$unit.name not know ambassador. $unit.name kill you.")
		( _ "$unit.name not know ambassadee. $unit.name chop you.")
		( _ "Foool eeembaaassyyy uuuseeleess.")
		( _ "Your embassy has come to a fiery end, Fool.")}

Code: Select all

If both the Drake and the Lich are killed, Elyssa comments:
[message]
				speaker=Elyssa
				message= _ "I am glad we finished of the drake. All his talk about 'Akhenku' gave me the creeps."
	[/message]

Code: Select all

Messages in cutscene if the player was bad enough to lose all humans and Ormron:
[part]
	story= _ "It is a shame that those humans should kill themselves. And that their leader should also die on the cusp of victory was tragic."
	background=$stored_E.profile
	[/part]
	[part]
		story= _ "Yes, humans were helpful to Grog."
		background=portraits/grog.png
	[/part]
	[part]
		story= _ "I imagine that it is traditional in their country for those who dishonour themselves in battle to commit ritual suicide."
		background=$stored_E.profile
	[/part]
	[part]
		story= _ "Never the less we must survive without their help."
		background=portraits/grog.png

One last thing: here there is how the Power Orbs (that you suggested placing in A7) will look:

Orbs.PNG (315.57 KiB) Viewed 3532 times

[Daravel]

ai_special=guardian will make them cease to move, unless they can attack something in the next turn - in fact, a remedy worse than the damage. Killing them with several lightning bolts? Funny, it will fit also the Runemaster unit. It may be done with a store_unit, then a foreach, then placing the lighting item like it's done for Elyssa, then killing and animating these units. Not sure how much time will require me.

Yes, I'm sorry I keep providing you with so much work. I just remembered, the event needs to trigger either: At the start of your turn, or at the end of it, this is so you don't get attacked by blue/green, then by purple. You could have the Runemaster move up to the blue/green keep, lightning them, then enter the caves a bit, and lightning them, then go back - To make it look like he went on a serious rampage

Better and simpler solution: three move_unit_fake to send three Trolls away to build the wall. Being fake units, no other change will be required.

Agreed.

Ok. It needs adding another side without any leader, and give it a leader on that turn as well as changing the terrain.

Sounds good.

Maybe two Saurian leadres are "sided" with the Dragon, other two are "sided" with an Orc leader (both the Orc and the Dragon won't appear - we may say that they are "followers"), they discuss about what is the most powerful leader, and, as it eventually happens, they start fighting.

That works, but don't necesarily fix the issue of it being a very simple scenario. What do you think of the idea of having to complete a task for one of them first? I know it's a lot more coding, sorry

Yes, no more Dwarves around.

Ok, when I go through the next time around, I'll change the previous dialogues to say that when the Dwarves helped them defend the town, the Dragon personaly attacked their mountain and set up in there - thus finding the sceptre of life.

I prefer playing than coding But if you suggest something that can improve the campaign, and I like it, I'll try to add it! And, if I won't add your proposed idea, it may be useful also for other UMC campaigns. About the maps, I solved the differences by copypasting some parts of the maps. After my next upload, you will be free to modify the maps as you like.

Ok, I'll keep to my plan then, hopefully most of the suggestions won't take too much coding - and I may even be able to help with some of it.

One last thing: here there is how the Power Orbs (that you suggested placing in A7) will look:

Orbs.PNG

They look awesome, much better than I imagined. The only thing is if you can change the red marking on the floor in the blue and green version - it looks a little odd to me?

As you have seen, I've taken on a massive project as well. I only have a few more scenario's to play and then you will have a full revision of all the existing dialogue - In case I disapear for some time, or even for good.