[interface] Select with left click. Act with right click.

[fabi]

I would prefer it if the control of units get changed that way that you have to select a unit by L-click (as is) though give order or more generaly enter an action menu by R-click. Thus you can't enter an unwantend command to an selected unit if you just want to select another unit.

Though I was initially repulsed by this idea, it would be nice. You don't lose any functionality and the chance of misclicking is probably reduced. That said, it sounds like it would be difficult to implement, and for such a marginal benefit, meh.

...

That is not easy to judge without a detailed code inspection.
There are ancient feature requests like a "move over" event which sound easy but are hard.
On the other hand is there stuff that is surprisingly easy to do but sounded complicated at the beginning.

I would like to support both input styles even considered that "options are bad".
That would need to have the code modularized to a degree that the joystick input could also benefit from the work.
Or the other way around: I need to do something to the mouse handling code anyway for my current project.

[MetalKing]

So, to move a unit, which is the most common action you make and which you likely make hundreds of times in an average scenario, would now mean going through the right-click menu. No more "click on unit, click on destination, done", but "click on unit, right-click on unit, click on move, click on destination, done" (the first click could maybe be made unneeded). That's a minimum of one extra click, and extra mouse movement to navigate the menu, and that's bad and would get extremely tedious and annoying really quickly.

No.

(1) 1x L-Click on Unit to select.
(2) 1x R-Click on Destination/Target (Default-Action)
Suma Sumarum 2 Clicks

if you R-Click on selected Unit you got a Action-Menu to select (other) Actions. Default-Action is of course there also listed.

*edit*

I had assumed that you just clicked on a unit and then right clicked on the destination as well, which is a command scheme many games use and is not really any more physically or time demanding than what we do right now, or any less for that matter.

Yes, I did mean that.

[fabi]

So, to move a unit, which is the most common action you make and which you likely make hundreds of times in an average scenario, would now mean going through the right-click menu. No more "click on unit, click on destination, done", but "click on unit, right-click on unit, click on move, click on destination, done" (the first click could maybe be made unneeded). That's a minimum of one extra click, and extra mouse movement to navigate the menu, and that's bad and would get extremely tedious and annoying really quickly.

No.

(1) 1x L-Click on Unit to select.
(2) 1x R-Click on Destination/Target (Default-Action)
Suma Sumarum 2 Clicks

Yes, that sounds fine.

if you R-Click on selected Unit you got a Action-Menu to select (other) Actions. Default-Action is of course there also listed.

That is not how the context menu system works. The context is not only specified by the selected unit but also by the hex field clicked on.
Thus it makes sense to right click on an empty field to recruit on it for example.
That would not bring up the context menu with your solution?

[zookeeper]

Oh, well, that is a lot better and an option to customize the buttons like that would surely be a good thing... if you can solve the associated problems, like how can I bring up the context menu on a vacant hex when I have a unit selected.

And yes, obviously the interface is bad and clumsy and certainly far from the ideal in a lot of places.

[Crendgrim]

Oh my.. I always cancel moves by going into the context menu, and I think there are more who do it this way. Happy misclicking.
As Velensk already said:

The first idea is in general a copy of control schemes people are more familiar with. Personally I don't see the point in moving the command list to a different control for this (the menu with recruit, rename, Star commands, ect.). One way makes a few things a little more convenient and the other makes others so you might we might as well keep the one our reflexes are conditioned to.

This is something I would totally support; especially as I don't see that much of a benefit from changing the controls. First of all, it's work (and thus time) which could be spent on something more important, and I actually do not think it's bad how Wesnoth is doing it.
We have the left mouse buttons for direct actions, while the right mouse button always triggers something indirect (as a menu). Where are the good points about mixing this up, and having one mouse button do both things, depending on whether you selected a unit or not? Sometimes you won't even remember (or see) that you selected a unit, and then on right clicking there's not the desired context menu opening, but the unit is moving somewhere you don't expect.
So, I do not really see any positive aspects about changing it, except from "becoming like the others"...


Crend

[fabi]

One of the flaws of the current user interface is the fact that you can not select a location but only a unit.
Terrain and the knowledge about it is a strong component of Wesnoth, but the information retrieval on it is rather hard.

The information about a terrain that is somehow influenced by a time of day shift for example is not accessible by the player.
Without having a unit standing on it, the time shift can be seen through the different time of day image, while hovering over the hex field.
But the information I want is accessed by hovering over that time of day image which will have changed back to the location the selected unit is standing on when the mouse reaches it.

So I suggest to drop the concept "selected unit" in favor of the concept "selected location".
If the left mouse button is dedicated to selecting actions there is no difference between selecting a unit or selecting an empty location then.
The sidebar section is used to display information about the terrain of an empty location.
The unit box will feature the terrain image, the player is also informed about the base terrains and how the move and defense values are calculated.
Also the question of healing and recruiting will be answered there.
On large resolutions both, the unit and the terrain values, can be displayed (maybe with or without a second box for the terrain image).

A left click will select the hex field in question and do nothing else.

A right single click will perform the default action for the selected unit on that hex field.
I think that should be move_to if the selected unit is in range of that field and it's empty and attack_unit if it is in range and occupied by the enemy.

A single useful exception to that concept might be if the selected unit is a leader, standing on a keep and the right clicked hex field is valid for recruit or recall.
The default action in that case might be recruit for single scenarios and recall for campaigns.

Keeping the right mouse button clicked will bring up a context menu, showing all actions concerning the selected unit (if any) the selected hex field and the hex field clicked on. Lifting the click will select one of the entries or do nothing if the mouse has left the menu.

[Gambit]

That is not how the context menu system works. The context is not only specified by the selected unit but also by the hex field clicked on.
Thus it makes sense to right click on an empty field to recruit on it for example.
That would not bring up the context menu with your solution?

This is unacceptable.

[fabi]

That is not how the context menu system works. The context is not only specified by the selected unit but also by the hex field clicked on.
Thus it makes sense to right click on an empty field to recruit on it for example.
That would not bring up the context menu with your solution?

This is unacceptable.

Yes of course.
I thought my post would imply that already.

[Insinuator]

Keeping the right mouse button clicked will bring up a context menu, showing all actions concerning the selected unit (if any) the selected hex field and the hex field clicked on. Lifting the click will select one of the entries or do nothing if the mouse has left the menu.

Are you suggesting a time delayed menu popup that appears when holding down the right mouse button? Personally, I've always found this to be clunky and annoying in other games. Often the menu is pulled up accidentally and you have to click to get out of it. This may sound trivial, but when you've just missed an enemy Wose 6 out of 6 times during the day with your Mages and you're moving a third Mage up and some stupid menu pops up in your face that you don't want, well, then. It becomes irritating.

Besides, what would be the point of having a menu come up when a unit is selected? Wesnoth has gotten by without any such thing for years. Your units (aside from your leader) normally can only move and attack, and the current UI manages that handily.

Terrain and the knowledge about it is a strong component of Wesnoth, but the information retrieval on it is rather hard.

My mind might just be playing tricks on me, but didn't there use to be an option in the right-click menu that would give details on the terrain? It would have been a long time ago, but I seem to recall being able to go right into the Help section on terrain from the right-click menu.

Oh my.. I always cancel moves by going into the context menu, and I think there are more who do it this way. Happy misclicking.

Uh, what exactly do you mean by "going into the context menu"? In the current implementation, once a unit is selected, you CAN'T access a menu on the battlefield. If you left-click, you move or attack. If you right-click, you simply deselect the unit.

[fabi]

Keeping the right mouse button clicked will bring up a context menu, showing all actions concerning the selected unit (if any) the selected hex field and the hex field clicked on. Lifting the click will select one of the entries or do nothing if the mouse has left the menu.

Are you suggesting a time delayed menu popup that appears when holding down the right mouse button? Personally, I've always found this to be clunky and annoying in other games. Often the menu is pulled up accidentally and you have to click to get out of it. This may sound trivial, but when you've just missed an enemy Wose 6 out of 6 times during the day with your Mages and you're moving a third Mage up and some stupid menu pops up in your face that you don't want, well, then. It becomes irritating.

No, that can't happen.
If you keep pressing the right mouse button, or better say you release it too late the following happens:
The code will recognize a drag and drop action (I know that is not being happen it is just how the code is arranged).
This will bring up the context menu but since you are releasing it shortly after (and at the same position of screen) the default action will get selected, leading to the action you had intended anyway. Maybe you see the menu flash up for a short time but the result will be the same.

Besides, what would be the point of having a menu come up when a unit is selected? Wesnoth has gotten by without any such thing for years. Your units (aside from your leader) normally can only move and attack, and the current UI manages that handily.

Right, mainline Wesnoth would not make use of that feature (except for recall/recruit etc).
But there are many addons using the [set_menu_item] tag.
It could be used to code, say "Heal target unit with the selected unit" in a much simpler way as it can be done currently.

[Dixie]

I am rather in favor of the idea fabi brings forth. For context menu, maybe holding long could work, but I would also suggest some-keyboard-key+click as an alternative.

As for recruiting/recalling: as it presently is, either you use the keyboard shortcuts + click, either you have to pass by the context menu. I don't see why this should change, and for consistency would keep a leader's default right-click action to be move/attack. Having to go through the context menu for moving onto a castle tile with your leader standing on a keep, or attacking an enemy unit there, seems a bit clunky to me.

[pauxlo]

Keeping the right mouse button clicked will bring up a context menu, showing all actions concerning the selected unit (if any) the selected hex field and the hex field clicked on. Lifting the click will select one of the entries or do nothing if the mouse has left the menu.

I don't think this is a better user experience concerning the context menu. Especially If I don't yet know the menu and have to read it first, I don't want to have to hold the mouse button down while reading, with the threat of otherwise having the default action executed.

[Insinuator]

No, that can't happen.
If you keep pressing the right mouse button, or better say you release it too late the following happens:
The code will recognize a drag and drop action (I know that is not being happen it is just how the code is arranged).
This will bring up the context menu but since you are releasing it shortly after (and at the same position of screen) the default action will get selected, leading to the action you had intended anyway. Maybe you see the menu flash up for a short time but the result will be the same.

Oh, it most certainly CAN happen! What's to say I release at the same position on the screen? If I'm already making a mistake by holding down the button longer than I intended to, than there is NO guarantee that I'm going to be keeping it stationary. Imagine I'm trying to move my Grunt up three spaces from my castle and then recruit another Grunt in his place. I do this very quickly, so without thinking, I click to move him, hesitate, and then begin moving down again to recruit another guy. Now my cursor changed and I accidentally had him do the special "Detonate" option that somebody thought would be a good idea. Do you see what I'm saying? It would be rare, true. But annoying, nonetheless.

[Crendgrim]

I'm not yet too convinced about having one button with two completely different actions: Default Action and Context Menu, triggered depending on how long you press the right mouse button.
If you don't time it right, it'll do something you don't want. Besides, it's quite a hard thing to discover (I would never try to hold a mouse button (which actually does something on clicking!) for a longer time, in hope of getting a menu...)
IMHO, this somehow violates the KISS principle, though this time not on the code side, but on the player's side.


Crend

[fabi]

I think defining the left click action is much easier than with the right one so I try to finalize this first.

Left click selects a hex field.
If it is occupied by an owned unit then the unit's reach is highlighted (Like it was ever) else
all units that can reach the hex field are highlighted (not only the ones owned).

The later new function can lead to a movement action where you select the target field first and the moving action later.