Valkiers portraits: It's like I can touch you!

[Valkier]

Another update. Getting there, but some things need worked on.

[thespaceinvader]

The perspective on the axe head doesn't seem quite right to me - it could do with being tipped back a little more. I'd also suggest that it jwould look better if he gripped it further from the head - just move the whole axe up with relation to his hands.

[kitty]

Nice progress since I checked this thread last time - I really like his attitude!

Some crits:
* More of a question: Since the lines are still missing, I take that you plan to add them afterwards - right?
* I already said it last time: there is an awfull lot of black in the darks. Tone that down. You need to be able to add darker lines around the dark parts (which is not possible if they are already pure black) and even those lines need to be lighter than pure black since the portrait will be displayed on a black background in some instances.
* I'm not a fan of the axe's position, as tsi already said the hand position is too near to the axe head - but moreover the position is perfectly parallel to the canvas, avoid perfect 90° or 180° angles - they are always boring.
* And don't use the bone colour for the cloth and leather parts as well, more nuances make things easier to "read".

Keep it up!

[Valkier]

Nice progress since I checked this thread last time - I really like his attitude!

Some crits:
* More of a question: Since the lines are still missing, I take that you plan to add them afterwards - right?
* I already said it last time: there is an awfull lot of black in the darks. Tone that down. You need to be able to add darker lines around the dark parts (which is not possible if they are already pure black) and even those lines need to be lighter than pure black since the portrait will be displayed on a black background in some instances.
* I'm not a fan of the axe's position, as tsi already said the hand position is too near to the axe head - but moreover the position is perfectly parallel to the canvas, avoid perfect 90° or 180° angles - they are always boring.
* And don't use the bone colour for the cloth and leather parts as well, more nuances make things easier to "read".

Keep it up!

1. Pretty much. Don't take this as some kind of attempt at superiority, but I spent the past 13 years studying NOT to have lines be used in a finished piece. I have no issue putting them in since that is what you want, but I simply don't work like that. I'll probably fiddle with them last, so don't expect to see them for the time being, or at the beginning of any future portraits really. Once I do start putting them in however, I will need further direction on how you want them till I get a better feel for what you want.

2. I started adding in blues for the shading (blue is complimentary to brown. etc. etc.) and toying with the shading here and there.

3. I repositioned the axe to be more like how the sprite holds it in game. I don't believe the perspective on the axe head is overly wrong however. I did move the head up further to bring it away from his hand.

4. I'm glad you brought that up actually. Units in the game get colors to them, so I was thinking of making the cloth that is hanging down from his shoulders something neutral. It does look a tad bit dull like that however, so I went ahead and made the cloth red. If this is fine, then great. If not, just let me know. I did also make the leather straps more brown like traditional leather. I still need to refine his lower half since the bulk of my limited time working on it today was regulated to the issues above. Hands need to be put in as well. I'll try to post an update within the next day or so. I'd do it now but the most current version is sitting on my laptop, and it's all the way across my room and it's late and I'm hungry and...

One thing I did want to ask is a suitable amount of grunge. I think skeleton warriors coming up from the ground and I think dirt, damp clothes, and blood either from their decomposed bodies or the people they killed along the way. I would think dirt and water and mud and scratches/damage would be fine, but I am also aware that this game is supposed to be accessible to young audiences as well, so I was wondering if I should skip the blood altogether. I'm not going to be at that point anytime soon so just let me know in the next couple days and all will be well.

Cheers

[Cloud]

IIRC Wesnoth shouldn't really include blood (I know for sprites it's an almost certain no, as any blood at sprite level would transfer into mammoth ammounts in game). That said I think it'd be okay to have red-brownish splatters of dried blood (like that which would appear on the clothing of a mildy injured hero in a film as that would not push Wesnoth past a PG/12+ (one of those is correct I know it) rating.

[thespaceinvader]

Bear in mind that blook decays quickly. There wouldn't be any left on a skeleton. A lot of rust would be good, as would some moss/grime/dirt etc.

[kitty]

Did you forget an attatchment? Your post reads as if it accompanied an pic.


Just some quick responses to your three of your replies:

1)
It's a moot discussion, but I enjoy it - so here we go...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read your post as if you are implying that lineart is generally inferior to painting. Are you saying that? Or are you only saying that realism should be achieved line-less?
Anyways, I disagree. Realism can be accomplished with or without lines - one of the most basic forms of art has cultivated the use of the line, it is called "drawing". And you can't deny that there are tons of hardcore-realistic drawings out there. Realism isn't a question of line vs. colour it is the question of representing stuff. And that can be done in lines, in a reduced palette or in full-colour or even three-dimensional in clay or whatever (which could be painted on or be monochromatic again). Reality is three dimensional and additionally time-bound and we (representational) artists strive to capture it. And if we use lines, shading, texture or rubber bands to do so is only a question of technique and style. The degree of realism isn't bound to the style that is used.

For the application in Wesnoth things won't change - we spent the last 1,5 years bringing together a growing collection of portraits in this unified style and we won't change it to start all over again. That is not possible and we don't want to do that.
The organizational advantage of this style-mix we use as our style is that we are able to embed artists with different backgrounds in our process easily - comic-artists only need to learn to shade properly and people from the painting side (like yourself) only need to learn to ink. That has proven to be very advantageous.


2)
Shading. I am not talking about the colour of the shadows - I am talking about their intensity. There are technical issues, which I already explained in my last post, which don't allow us to use black. Period.


grunge/blood)
There is no general anti-blood guideline, some scratches and bruises or some dried blood are certainly ok. As already has been said: just keep it family friendly

[Valkier]

No, there's no attachment in that last one. Check back tonight however. I'll be working on it for a bit.


As for the color of the shading, I think it has everything to do with the concerns you have. Black makes EVERYTHING pop out since it is flat. I think you'll find that once it is put to that background, you'll notice the shading pop out much more than you'd expect. And if not and I'm wrong, I'll fix it. God bless photoshop. I'll be doing the lines in a color other than black. As I said from the beginning, the line work on the skull currently was basically a test render. I simply didn't want to spend too much time on a test.

Rust and dirt and possibly water are gonna be somewhere on him. Blood does decompose rather quickly, yes, but this guy has been fighting and lets not forget, RIPPED OUT OF A BODY. Unless we're saying my pirticular skeleton is rather old, I'm not certain he'd be all that clean of anything. But no, I never intended for huge amounts of gore. If I do decide to add it in, I'll do everything I can to keep it tasteful.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

RIPPED OUT OF A BODY.

What gave you that idea? The normal idea of undead skeletons is that the body used has already had all the flesh decayed. Unless there's an in-game description that I missed, I assume it is that same in Wesnoth.

[Valkier]

[

RIPPED OUT OF A BODY.

What gave you that idea? The normal idea of undead skeletons is that the body used has already had all the flesh decayed. Unless there's an in-game description that I missed, I assume it is that same in Wesnoth.

Or... I missed that part. Noted as my mistake.

[Valkier]

Here's the update as promised. He's looking rather plain to me at the moment sadly. I may start deviating a tiny bit from the sprite if only to make it look better. If someone wants to give me some limitations on how much I can deviate, then feel free. Otherwise I'm going to try some things out. I'll stay as close to the source material as possible.

[Huston]

I'm not very good at art but i do know what i like and i don't like it right now because the new angle of the ax doesn't look like it goes right with the direction the skeleton is looking towards. try turning the head.

I do like the rest of it though.

EDIT: read the picture

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I'm pretty sure it looks blurry because he's still working on it and has only added a couple of preliminary lines to mark what he plans on doing in more detail later.

[Valkier]

I'm not very good at art but i do know what i like and i don't like it right now because the new angle of the ax doesn't look like it goes right with the direction the skeleton is looking towards. try turning the head.

I do like the rest of it though.

EDIT: read the picture

Patience my friend. I like to toy and experiment while I'm working. I'm not going to fully render something right off the bat. As for the axe, I want him to look like he's going to swing across. It's pretty much the way I want it for the time being.

Also, update. Haven't decided if I like the eyes this way or empty. Not hard to make and even easier to erase, so i'll let you guys decide.

Edit: I am not without fault. After looking at my current axe a little while and weighing how he would move, I decided the axe is in fact wrong. I think I'm going to turn the direction of the axe head however. I think making the skull face the same direction as the rest of the body would look a little dull.

[cretin]

your gonna get alot of comments and nitpicks from people all the time, i hope you persevere through them all, your skellies awsome. especially the damage to the armor thats just a cool addition.

personally i think nothing in the eyes is better.

on the note of how far you can deviate from the sprite, dont quote me on this, but i think (and they lovely people running the show here will correct me if im wrong) as long as it recognizable as being the unit your allowed a fair amount of leeway and personal preference. your putting effort into drawing it after all. naturally you cant have the skelly with a a sword when he's obviously carrying an axe in game.

cheers, i like your work, patiently waiting for every update.