Outlaws - Finished!

[kitty]

Sangel - thanks!
Simons Mith - thanks for your longwinded explanation! but i think the hand's problem wasn't the finger placement (your explanation reads as if all fingers had to be really, really thick, but we talk about slim cunning girl hands) but that the angle of the dagger and hand didn't match up.
xtifr - i redrew the dagger and hand
TheJM - there already was a belt below the pouches but it got too dark while shading - thanks for pointing that out!
groovy - not much to add to what jetryl said. i like the belts, they can be used to strap stuff on, could carry little inside pockets, carry an not visible backpack etc. i can imagine lots of uses for them for a thief, use your imagaination. but i'm glad you found something worthwhile nitpicking about the shoulder, i lost the outline below the hair and added it back in.
jetryl - thanks

final version:

[Iris]

Committed, however it's only used for the female L1 Thief at the moment. Did you intend it to be used for the female Rogue as well, or are you making a separate portrait later?

[Skizzaltix]

Awesome job! I'm looking forward to the next release, so that I can see this in-game

Something about the hand still feels off to me, though--I think it's that, when I hold an object like that dagger (I just tried it out with a Swiss Army knife), the knuckle on my index finger sticks out much farther than those on my other fingers, whereas here they're in pretty much a straight line
Also, her index finger almost looks like it's underneath her middle finger, because of the shadow
Very minor issue, though, and if you don't feel like changing it, it's fine as-is...
Anyway, great work, as always!

On a side note, I always thought the thieves used lime to make their hair white, and the blue was just because white looks better when shaded with blue--Learn something new every day on here.

[Iris]

For as long as anyone can remember, the members of the various 'guilds' of rat-catchers that spring up in any larger city have had a curious practice of bleaching their hair with lime till it becomes a pale shade of blue. It is a bold thing to do, as their profession often delves into less-than-legal enterprises. Thieves have many skills, and by necessity are both light on their feet, and good with knives. They happily employ less-than-honorable tactics in combat, seeing little merit in a 'fair fight'.

The part of the hair color has been that way since as long as I remember (0.9.6), IIRC.

[AI]

Something about the hand still feels off to me, though--I think it's that, when I hold an object like that dagger (I just tried it out with a Swiss Army knife), the knuckle on my index finger sticks out much farther than those on my other fingers, whereas here they're in pretty much a straight line

Having just tested it out myself, gripping a Swiss Army knife indeed seems to have that effect. However, doing the same with a larger knife with a non-cylindrical handle, I get results almost exactly the same as Kitty's rendering.

[JW]

Totally sexy. I love the belt with the two holes running across the entire length. I have one like that that I wear a lot as well - they're great!

[Sgt. Groovy]

carry an not visible backpack

That must come handy, to hide all the loot in where nobody can see!

[LordBob]

Dropping by quickly only to say that I like this new thief a lot. Will keenly watch how the next ones develop.

[Turuk]

Kitty does indeed do wonderful work, and I am sure she is well aware that she is appreciated by the Wesnoth community. I know a little praise now and then is not remiss, but a little reminder.

As a general Rule, posts in the the Art Contribution section should be meaningful in some way--addressing a question asked by the poster, or giving C&C. Posting simply to say how "awesome something is" is a great sentiment, but when it happens every time, over every image, can get quite "noisy." Although some praising is fine, please try and make your posts more substantive than just "WOW UR KEWL." Excessive noisy comments will be split/removed.

[thespaceinvader]

Looks good, but I still see a minor problem - the lines, particularly round her torso, seem to be lighter than the colours - it makes the whole torso section look fairly ill-defined, particularly around her elbow area and the belts there.

Great work, other than that. it's great to see you back on mainline =D

[kitty]

Shadow Master: I'd like to have her as l1 and 2. perhaps i'll do seperate l2 portraits at a later point but for now the units are similar enough.
Skizzaltix: like AI pointed out the grip doen't sem to be a problem to me.
JW: heh, i like this kind of belts, too
groovy:
LordBob: Thanks
spaceinvader: hmm, i can see what you mean, but it doesn't bother me at all. i rather like to have some lighter outlines than pitch black ones. but i'll take care to avoid these in future.




and a first rough for the male version. i wanted him to be usable for both the thief and rogue, but he turned out like rather a rogue only portrait. i'll see if i'll do a seperate one for the l1.

[thespaceinvader]

His head seems a little large to me, perhaps. And he seems very narrow in the body. he looks great as a rogue =) The thief could maybe stand to be a little younger-lookign though, for my money, particularly if you're aiming to do separate images for both levels.

I like the addition of scars to these guys - makes them feel a little more gritty and hard-bitten. great work =)

[Girgistian]

Wow, I was actually expecting something more like a typical romantized thief, but I see you didn't want to go with the flow - good

As for general critique, I don't really agree with thespaceinvader's comments about the general skinnyness, since it's not supposed to be an especially tough unit anyway, but the strictly horizontal belt doesn't feel like a good choice. It flattens the image a lot, and doesn't seem too natural - despite the fact that actual belts sometimes look like that in real life. You'll always have to make it look more natural than it actually is with portrait art (of which I'm sure you're aware of anyway).

As for the rogue/thief mention, I'd say there's no problem with that - it can be used for both anyways, and if you wanna draw the rogue a portrait of it's own, you could always add a bunch of straps and make him look more confident (yeah, like the typical romantized thief ) EDIT: or whatever.

[Turuk]

I do have to agree that the scars and overall grittiness makes the thief seem like someone who is more accustomed to skulking and stabbing then full-on combat. However, I would like to point out something about the pose/make a suggestion if I may. His current stance, given his head being slightly forward, facial expression, and hand placement seems very non-threatening. He seems as if he is offering a point of instruction on something, given how he seems to be pointing/gesturing with the knife and the hand on his hip seems as if he is bored or relaxed.

For the knife, while it is indeed capable of killing someone, it seems of a size and shape more reminiscent of cutlery than a weapon, which emphasizes the non-threatening nature of his pose. I would imagine the thief would use a double-edged dagger as opposed to a single edge knife.

Just my two cents though in an effort to be helpful.

[Simons Mith]

You can get away with a few scarred faces but watch out for the slide towards cliche. Alternatives to scarred faces include... the odd missing finger, chop off the tip of a character's ear or even his nose, scarred limbs, partial baldness, patchy coloured skin. Maybe an eyepatch, at a stretch...

[Edit: changed my mind slightly & reworded above to suit. This guy's really growing on me. I find the pose threatening/menacing rather than about-to-enter-combat, and I like that; it's fitting for the unit and it makes a change.]

[Edit edit: He reminds me a bit of Teatime from the recent BBC version of Hogfather.]