Loyalists
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Sir_Furious
- Posts: 39
- Joined: August 7th, 2007, 1:57 am
- Location: Let me think about that.
Though footpads aren't loyalists, so farewell to that thought for now.
Anyway, when I make an initial recruit for loyalists or any faction, I tend to take this multistep process:
1. I pick a starting hex.
2. I count how far a unit would have to walk to a village that falls on my boarders from that hex.
3. I check which units can reach the village from the starting hex in the fewest number of turns, taking villages all the while.
4. I compare the damage types and memorized resistances of those units, to maintain a balance of units that are useful against drakes vs. units that are useful against undead.
5. I try to get a balanced ratio of melee units and long ranged units, as is unintrusive to the other conditions above.
6. I pick a units based upon the information above.
As a rule of thumb, most things that deal pierce, cold or sometimes archane is considered anti-drake. Likewise, most things that deal impact, fire or archane is considered anti-undead. Blade is considered neutral but not preferred since both factions have plenty of units that can resist it.
Why only recruit so that you're balanced against drakes and undead when playing multiplayer, when the enemy's faction is unknown and there are four more potential factions? It's quite simple really. Against the other four factions, everything you have has a potential use, even if it isn't an optimal unit. Drakes and undead however, have been fashioned in a way where they're countered best by wielding the right damage types and will pretty much run over you if you don't.
For loyalists, finding an anti-drake unit won't be too hard. Just grab something with pierce. For anti-undead, you're pretty much limited to mages and heavy infantry. Be sparse on the H.I. against undead though, since they're expensive and catch cold easily. The adept just has such an awful sneeze.
Anyway, when I make an initial recruit for loyalists or any faction, I tend to take this multistep process:
1. I pick a starting hex.
2. I count how far a unit would have to walk to a village that falls on my boarders from that hex.
3. I check which units can reach the village from the starting hex in the fewest number of turns, taking villages all the while.
4. I compare the damage types and memorized resistances of those units, to maintain a balance of units that are useful against drakes vs. units that are useful against undead.
5. I try to get a balanced ratio of melee units and long ranged units, as is unintrusive to the other conditions above.
6. I pick a units based upon the information above.
As a rule of thumb, most things that deal pierce, cold or sometimes archane is considered anti-drake. Likewise, most things that deal impact, fire or archane is considered anti-undead. Blade is considered neutral but not preferred since both factions have plenty of units that can resist it.
Why only recruit so that you're balanced against drakes and undead when playing multiplayer, when the enemy's faction is unknown and there are four more potential factions? It's quite simple really. Against the other four factions, everything you have has a potential use, even if it isn't an optimal unit. Drakes and undead however, have been fashioned in a way where they're countered best by wielding the right damage types and will pretty much run over you if you don't.
For loyalists, finding an anti-drake unit won't be too hard. Just grab something with pierce. For anti-undead, you're pretty much limited to mages and heavy infantry. Be sparse on the H.I. against undead though, since they're expensive and catch cold easily. The adept just has such an awful sneeze.
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Sir_Furious
- Posts: 39
- Joined: August 7th, 2007, 1:57 am
- Location: Let me think about that.
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Sir_Furious
- Posts: 39
- Joined: August 7th, 2007, 1:57 am
- Location: Let me think about that.
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VThornheart
- Posts: 4
- Joined: December 25th, 2007, 5:43 pm
- Location: Virandia, Solaris IV
- Contact:
I have to admit, I love playing with Mages the most as Loyalists... but the archers seem to be the ones who level quickest for me.
I find that when I play any given Loyalist campaign, after the first two or three missions I'll have one level 2 mage, one level 2 Horseman (if I'm lucky), and half a dozen level 2-3 archers.
I think with their high evasion in the forest, they act as the "front line" men for me. No other Loyalist units seem to stand up to repeated attacks for as long, even the ones with more hitpoints like the Heavy Infantryman.
I find that when I play any given Loyalist campaign, after the first two or three missions I'll have one level 2 mage, one level 2 Horseman (if I'm lucky), and half a dozen level 2-3 archers.
I think with their high evasion in the forest, they act as the "front line" men for me. No other Loyalist units seem to stand up to repeated attacks for as long, even the ones with more hitpoints like the Heavy Infantryman.
-Vendal Thornheart
Loyalists 4 Life
Loyalists 4 Life
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Federalist marshal
- Art Contributor
- Posts: 382
- Joined: December 17th, 2007, 12:02 am
i have a rather pure loyalist style:
- Spearman as main meat, you cannot have enough of these Guys, recruiting many will also ensure that you have some strong ones, some robust ones, and also fast ones are quite useful. the only Reason you train something else is becasue one of the other Units is needed:
- Mages, these Guys are your main offensive Weapon. an offensive without these guys is rather limited (except versus drakes, which dont have high defnses anyway). i prefer them over archers any day, since they are much more reliable in dealing damage. of course they are fragile sometimes, though a resilient one can have 29/30 hits. they are also a must when enemy has Heavy Infantry, because with spears you may hold a city, but i would never attack HI with spears. i recommend to get two of these guys, once you can protect them (or even more if you have really more than enough other units)
- Cavalry. Your scouts, your units that grab far villges and they have blade damage, which is useful against woses for example. and they also have high resistances. its useful to have one or two (maybe more). they are fast and due to that versatile
- merman. very good water fighter. get one (or more) if it fits.
- Heavy Infantry, if the enemy is undead you may want to get one (or more ? ) of these guys.
thats my loyalist style, i dont say that Fencers or Knights are weak or soemthing, i just never use them - enemy fencers can be annoying as hell (since you need either a mage (or two) or if you have bad luck your entire army to remove that one fencre from your village), my own fencers tend to die quickly though (and i always miss that one spearman i could have bought instad somewhere) - i am just not used to them -
btw, sometimes i buy a knight if i have tons of units already, no problems and need a heavy hitter, but thats an exception
i need cheap, expendable, reliabale meat, supported by mages (and in best case also supported with leadership). cavalry is there because of early village grabbing and i can also often make a use out of it. if there is a wose around it makes sense to have also a cav in the area as it can finish it far better than a spearman. of course also their speed makes them useful
i get always merman if it makes sense, and its nice to have at least one HI against undead. if i get it in first round or later depends on maps probably
now what you get on a certain map also depends how much and when you need it. this is just my general "philosophy"
btw, this is for 2gpv and 70% XP
- i dont like other sttings, becasue fewer XP make the game depend more on luck (hey i had luck, all attacks hit, enemy is dead and hurrah, my units also levels) and thats plain stupid in my opinion - luck has way more impact on these games. and if thats not enough them you also hear them screaming "luck here, luck there"
more gpv simply make the game a village race (get cav only and get as many villges you can or something) and you may train unts faster than they die, the cost of units get more insignifikant also (so +1 more or less is no big deal). just a plain setting for people who dont have too much skill, in my opinion. having more gpv only makes sense if there are exceptional few villages per player on map - maybe 1 or 2 per player
people who set high gpv are also not aware that stealing a village at 2gpv setting (default) from opponent is a swing in 6gold PER TURN !!. what can i say ? newbies.
- Spearman as main meat, you cannot have enough of these Guys, recruiting many will also ensure that you have some strong ones, some robust ones, and also fast ones are quite useful. the only Reason you train something else is becasue one of the other Units is needed:
- Mages, these Guys are your main offensive Weapon. an offensive without these guys is rather limited (except versus drakes, which dont have high defnses anyway). i prefer them over archers any day, since they are much more reliable in dealing damage. of course they are fragile sometimes, though a resilient one can have 29/30 hits. they are also a must when enemy has Heavy Infantry, because with spears you may hold a city, but i would never attack HI with spears. i recommend to get two of these guys, once you can protect them (or even more if you have really more than enough other units)
- Cavalry. Your scouts, your units that grab far villges and they have blade damage, which is useful against woses for example. and they also have high resistances. its useful to have one or two (maybe more). they are fast and due to that versatile
- merman. very good water fighter. get one (or more) if it fits.
- Heavy Infantry, if the enemy is undead you may want to get one (or more ? ) of these guys.
thats my loyalist style, i dont say that Fencers or Knights are weak or soemthing, i just never use them - enemy fencers can be annoying as hell (since you need either a mage (or two) or if you have bad luck your entire army to remove that one fencre from your village), my own fencers tend to die quickly though (and i always miss that one spearman i could have bought instad somewhere) - i am just not used to them -
btw, sometimes i buy a knight if i have tons of units already, no problems and need a heavy hitter, but thats an exception
i need cheap, expendable, reliabale meat, supported by mages (and in best case also supported with leadership). cavalry is there because of early village grabbing and i can also often make a use out of it. if there is a wose around it makes sense to have also a cav in the area as it can finish it far better than a spearman. of course also their speed makes them useful
i get always merman if it makes sense, and its nice to have at least one HI against undead. if i get it in first round or later depends on maps probably
now what you get on a certain map also depends how much and when you need it. this is just my general "philosophy"
btw, this is for 2gpv and 70% XP
- i dont like other sttings, becasue fewer XP make the game depend more on luck (hey i had luck, all attacks hit, enemy is dead and hurrah, my units also levels) and thats plain stupid in my opinion - luck has way more impact on these games. and if thats not enough them you also hear them screaming "luck here, luck there"more gpv simply make the game a village race (get cav only and get as many villges you can or something) and you may train unts faster than they die, the cost of units get more insignifikant also (so +1 more or less is no big deal). just a plain setting for people who dont have too much skill, in my opinion. having more gpv only makes sense if there are exceptional few villages per player on map - maybe 1 or 2 per player
people who set high gpv are also not aware that stealing a village at 2gpv setting (default) from opponent is a swing in 6gold PER TURN !!. what can i say ? newbies.
He's probably referring to them as wose defense. 
Anyways, he's describing his style, which might be a personal choice, his identification.
Anyways, he's describing his style, which might be a personal choice, his identification.
Take a breath.
Cavalry actually hurt Woses quite bad - 40% impact resist, lawful, three strikes, blade, mobile. I can imagine worse units to fight Woses. While the mage may be the obvious counter, the cavalryman does a good job too.
The fight against human stupidity is endless, but we must never give it up.
- Jan Werich
- Jan Werich
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Federalist marshal
- Art Contributor
- Posts: 382
- Joined: December 17th, 2007, 12:02 am
A mage is horrible at defending against woses, and cavalry is quite good, and I didn't see more than 2 skeletons 2 last undead games I played. Cavalry also has nice cold resistance vs dark adepts.Federalist marshal wrote:One of the reasons why I like cavalrymen so much-they're fairly good at dealign with woses, and they are somewhat more effective on undead than spearmen of bowmen. Of course, a mage is a better answer to woses, and Heavy infantry for undead.
i guess you dont understand my post anyway. so if i have mages i use them versus wose of course, i dont think i need to pronounce that. lolJozrael wrote:Wth? You mention that you really like mages but cavalry are your unit of choice vs wose?
There's other stuff too, that one's just blatant.
i just said if that it is useful to have a cavalryman in the area if there is a wose to FINISH it. that was just an example that yu can make always good use of of a cavalyryman
finish after a mage seriusly weakened it. a mage + cavalry man can deal well with a wose, two mages might be better, but you dont always have two (well sure i usually dont go into offense without two mages, so i usually have two), and a cavalryman is fast and can be very well used. even if there is no mages, cavalryman can deal with woses.
it seems you just dont get it, and i would be glad if you tell me the "other stuff" that is wrong in your opinion
Wow o.o. Lotta comments. I suppose my previous post was overly harsh? I didn't mean for it to be. I just thought it odd that the mentioned unit for dealing with woses was a cavalryman, I understand that they're effective...just mage jumps immediately to my mind when I'm thinking of how to deal with wose. I guess I'm more of an offensively minded player.
In terms of other things, doing a brief reread, it seems you don't give HI much credit. In matchups with a smaller day/night push they can be just as useful as against UD (and unless they're spamming skeles I really don't prefer to use them often against UD...they get frozen so fast by DAs =\). They're excellent against melee only factions: what better unit to have on the frontlines vs Knalgans, for example?
Keep in mind, I am NOT a primary loyalist player, so I'm sure that you have more experience than I. These were just thoughts that came to mind, not personal attacks =\.
Again, sorry if my previous post seemed harsh. It was meant to be more...confused.
In terms of other things, doing a brief reread, it seems you don't give HI much credit. In matchups with a smaller day/night push they can be just as useful as against UD (and unless they're spamming skeles I really don't prefer to use them often against UD...they get frozen so fast by DAs =\). They're excellent against melee only factions: what better unit to have on the frontlines vs Knalgans, for example?
Keep in mind, I am NOT a primary loyalist player, so I'm sure that you have more experience than I. These were just thoughts that came to mind, not personal attacks =\.
Again, sorry if my previous post seemed harsh. It was meant to be more...confused.